Is it ok to breed black widow to enchi black widow

Well congratulations on being fortunate enough to have more than me. Im still willing to bet there are far more buyers like me or worse off than people such as yourself.

Just pointed out facts i don’t think you considered. There are countless breeders breeding ball pythons thinking they are going to get rich, people do the same thing with dogs and other animals as well.

Inflation is through the roof, rent food gas prices skyrocketing. Gas is 7.00 where i live not long ago it was 4 bucks, heck i remember when it was a buck a gallon.

You may have money to buy, but many people are having to tighten their belts.

I have no financial obligations except rent and food and i pretty much spendcevery penny but i have made cuts because food prices have tripled in 3 years.

Our government is paying farmers not to farm, farmers have been destroying crops livestock and byproducts of animals such as milk. They have had mysterious fires at food processing plants and they canceled snow crab season because millions of crabs mysteriously disappeared.

Seriously the economy isn’t getting better its getting much worse.

Animals are a vanity luxury item not a necessity so most logical responsible people when faced with questions like do i buy this luxury or do i pay my rent or buy my food, psy my bills?not much choice when it comes to survival.

I don’t mean to sound overly harsh just putting it in perspective.

As i said i plan on mating my rosy boa this spring. They have 3 to 8 babies that i will likely end up keeping all or most. Maybe i might sell 1 or 2 but i know ill just as likely sell none. The Rosy Boa market is super small compared to ball pythons. Theres about 70 when babies are born but hovers about 30ish. I better have some fire AF Rosys if i have any hope of selling any.
So you will be competing with 40k other animals so you will need to stand out, ya gotta aquire top genes people would want to buy and of course that will cost money. Honestly IMO i feel spider is a garbage gene should never be sold regardless of how people downplay the neurological issue they have.

I don’t mean disrespect just trying to say reality. Wish you luck in you endeavors.

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I just asked about weather I could this pair of snakes you turned into a money thing and everything else I have breed other animals I never said I was trying to get rich I just feel like breeding snakes to get to the snakes I like is better then just buying them I’m sure there were less snakes on MorphMarket last year and I’ll bet everything there will be more next year and even more the year after and so on

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And I just wanna say thank you to chesterhf, ballornothing,armiyana and eaglereptiles for helping me and not trying to talk me out of breeding your advice is very much appreciated

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You’re wanting to breed, it seems, for the sake of breeding. If you’re going to breed, as a responsible breeder it is your responsibility to take into account things like the market (extremely saturated), the genetics (you’re wanting to breed two animals with potential defect genes), and long-term goals. My suggestion is always that breeding should first and foremost be genes you love, so if you don’t know the genes well enough to know what other genes you want to pair with them without asking other folks for suggestions, I strongly recommend you not breed until you do know that. No one wants to dogpile you, so this is the only comment I will make as I don’t want to contribute, but it is incredibly important to know both the market and your genetic goals (and defects in the genes you have and potential combos) before you even consider breeding. It’s very easy to burn yourself out and end up producing animals that won’t end up in good homes without knowing all of this beforehand.

As for the genetics, Hillary and Don covered it. Spider X Spider is lethal, single gene spider has a neurological disorder that may or may not be severe enough to present with a head wobble, and black pastel X black pastel have issues with spinal and skull deformities and kinks. I agree with them wholeheartedly in recommending against that pairing.


Sounds to me like the seller that @frank45 bought the animals from didnt have a very good set of ethics. I dont think he should have told @frank45 he could breed these two together. But rather he should have explained the ethics behind not breeding these 2 or should have recommended 1 of the many other snakes that would have paired well with the genetics in the Black Widow. CHRIS HARDWICK does a good analysis of the Black Widow combo morph and shows a bunch of other genes that pair well with it.
@frank45, there has been tons of bad repor around breeding the Spider Gene. The issues that Spider creates in the offspring can be anywhere from barely noticable to severly extreme. Just be prepared that if you do breed these two together, you may not get any babies period or that those that you do get “could” have such sever defects if they survive that you may have to euthanize them or they may require more expert care than you may be prepared to provide.

Personally, i suggest that you get another male and female that have totally different gene sets and breed them to the Black Widows that you have instead. These could be 2 single gene or 2 multi gene animals. Either way, you will increase your chances of producing viable offspring and have a lot more variability in the offspring you produce making it more likely you will be successful at selling them. Maybe try Banana, Lemon Blast, King Pin or something else. These are all relatively inexpensive animals. But definately avoid trying to cross in any of the Spider Complex genes or doubling up on the Black Pastel gene like everyone is saying. Please be responsible with your pairings. Your animals and their offspring deserve that.


On the topic of breeding. Everyone is just trying to be sure that you know what you’re getting yourself into. It is very difficult to sell animals so you will need to be able to take care of them for a while. That being said, if you decide to breed, you need to research everything as much as you can. And that is exactly what you are doing here. You are asking questions and trying to learn more about the animals you have and want to breed.
Be sure that you produce animals that you enjoy. Figure out which morph combos you like that have those morphs in them. Otherwise, you could stop enjoying the hobby and it will be a chore to keep them for that long instead of a hobby. If you have the money to put into this (I’ve put in >5k in 3 years and it’s going to be a couple years before I’m even expecting to make a decent revenue) and you are prepared to keep many, many babies for months, then I don’t see a reason why not to breed. As long as you are producing unique snakes they should be able to sell, it might just take a while. Try to avoid producing one or two gene animals, which are extremely difficult to sell. To do this just choose another snake to pair that either has many other genes or is a visual recessive and a couple other genes.