Is it ok to breed black widow to enchi black widow

I’m a first time breeder and wondering if breeding a black widow to an enchi black widow would cause issues with the babies because they both have the spider gene


Given that two copies of spider is lethal, any offspring that inherit both likely won’t survive beyond incubation, and super black pastel, super cinnamon and black pastel cinnamons have a high likelihood of producing kinked and duckbilled hatchlings. I would strongly recommend against this pairing


As Hilary mentioned, you’re asking for problems with that one. I accidentally did a spider x spider pairing a few years ago. The only super never pipped, but was alive when I cut the egg. It died within 15 minutes of being exposed to the air and never left the egg. I have a couple friends who’ve worked on the Super Cinny/8Ball complex a lot and the number of wasted eggs and deformed hatchlings is extremely high.


Yeah let’s do this: here’s the Super Spider - Just going to pop this here.

@ballornothing if you could add to that thread with your personal experience that would be great.


Ok thank you that’s why I was asking for advice so that didn’t happen now 1 more ? What is good to breed to the black widow which is a female or the enchi black widow is the male what pairs up with them for the best looking I’m new just trying to get some advice


I think the first thing to do is browse around the classifieds for combos you like that are enchi or black pastel.

Your male is the more powerful breeder if he is up to size already. Enchi and black pastel are allelic. So what that means for you is every hatchling will be guaranteed to have enchi OR black pastel. A female that does still have enchi would be a good choice, but browsing will let you see if there are other combos you like.


I’m going to be real here and say it’s not worth breeding, especially as a first timer. I don’t work with ball pythons, but I suggest talking in depth with multiple breeders and getting a feel for things before you start any projects. The market isn’t great right now, inflation is making a lot of people spend cautiously. The sheer over saturation of the BP market (42k+ listed on MM alone) also means that unless you’ve got buyers lined up, you’re going to have a heck of a time selling any offspring produced.


This is why I asked I didn’t plan on breeding them for 8 months to a year from now but if I couldn’t it would give me that time to find a breeder male or female or both for the breeding season just trying to plan ahead for next year so I’m not rushing and trying to figure it out at the last minute

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The economy isn’t going to pick up by next year, its getting worse. In the last 3 years my groceries alone almost tripled in price. Im having to cut back on buying just so i can eat ( i don’t eat much maybe once a day) went to the grocery spent 45 dollars had nothing really to show for it. I remember when 40 dollars would fill 2 bags, now its like 1 bag or less. Some 40k. Balls and you want to make more? Just another nameless person in the crowd.

Im probably in the same boat with my Rosys which i will likely end up keeping all because people aren’t spending like they use to.


Who knows what the economy is gonna do next year and if you wanna find a reason why you shouldn’t do it there will always be a reason thanks for your advice but I’m gonna breed them next year maybe only 1 pair maybe 2 but I’m gonna try and I’ll go from there if I have to I’ll keep them


And not for nothing but my pay has never been higher over the past 2 years I understand your situation but you don’t know mine and everybody is a nameless person in breeding at 1 point


The advice is meant to help you and also make you aware of what you’re getting into. No one has to breed, and not everyone should. There are 42k ball pythons for sale on MM. That’s more than any other species, and it might be more than all the other categories combined. Unless you’ve got pristine, top of the line genetics that are in demand, you’re going to be sinking a lot of money into this. You should be considering your animals as well, their welfare, whether or not breeding them is the right choice.

That said, I’m out because you’re being needlessly defensive over simple suggestions of how important considering the long term is.


I don’t think telling someone they are just another nameless breeder is trying to be helpful .The question I asked was can you breed black widow to enchi black widow if you wanted to be helpful you would have helped with that question I was asking .


I’m a nameless breeder, too. There’s no malice behind pointing out that you will be disadvantaged by the fact that you’re an upstart. It’s just a fact. As for your question, that one was answered, and you were told not unless you wanted to deal with possible super spider lethality. You then asked what paired up with either animal for the best looking combo, which is a question that can only be answered subjectively. You also said you were looking for advice and were new, so advice was dispensed. No reason to be rude to those being real about this hobby. :person_shrugging:


@noodlehaus does have a point on things. There are things that you need to be prepared for when breeding and the animal’s well being is absolutely one of the foreunners.

As a new breeder these are things you will have to consider.

With 2 clutches of eggs you can be looking at up to 20 babies. Are you preppared to feed that many babies? I’m still working on assist feeding a baby born on July 8th that still will not eat on her own.
So not only is there the feeding factor…are you prepared for the potential problems? Not only with babies that are slow starters… have you looked into hard belly? Will you be able to euthanize when needed with a baby that will not thrive?
Do you already have a vet in ther area you will be able to take animals to as issues arise?
Do you have the proper facilities to maintain quarrentine on the new animals you want to bring in? Enough to raise the babies you may be keeping for weeks/months after breeding?

You weren’t aware of the kinking issues or lethal gene here. Are you aware of the other genes that can cause kinking, eye problems or eggbinding?

It isn’t just a matter of “I have money” “I want to breed” there are a lot of other things that people don’t always look into at first. Does someone want to listen to the depressing stuff? No. Is it good for you to be aware of? Absolutely.


I have been doing my research and by next year I will be ready and I said 1 maybe 2 pairs come next year when it’s time I’ll see where I’m at

And if you read my original post I did know about the spider gene that’s why I asked I’m doing my research and asking questions I’m doing this a year before I plan on breeding the snakes. I thought this website was for people to ask questions if they were new or didn’t know and get advice from people that do know but jeez it seems like some of you just wanna act like your to good to help if you can’t help them just don’t say anything I’m trying to be responsible and that doesn’t seem to matter everybody is new at this at 1 point !

I’m saying this as someone who also did the research and had just started breeding last year.

Regarding your first post, I’m honestly surprised that you were aware of the spider issues and still even thought to ask. But you were also not aware of the risk of kinking and duckbilling in the animals as well. It does show that you need to do more research on the genetics of the animals you know already as well as research for yourself what you may be interested in working with.

The advice here is to help you succed. How you are taking this is your own feelings on the matter. Yes, noodle was a bit intent of the point that Yes, the market is flooded. Last year I sold my first clutch to a local store because there was no one buying here. This year I’m slowly getting a few questions on the ones I had for sale, but have only sold 1 of my 6 hatchlings after 60 days. Unless you are working with high end genes, which a spider enchi black pastel will not be, the market is very slow to pay attention to newcomers and that is the info they wanted to impart.
A large number of people jumped in last year wanting to breed immediately without doing research ahead of time. I had been planning my first clutch last year since 2017 when I purchased my first female. Everyone here started where you did. The things we are telling you are things we had to learn sometimes without the help of others.


Even if I was working with high end genes people are not gonna want to pay big money from a first time breeder and I know I don’t know everything i hardly know anything but this is why I’m getting a plan on what I will breed and the genes a year before I breed them I knew about the spider gene but wasn’t sure since there was 3-4 other genes in there if it would be ok this is why I asked instead of believing the person I bought them from and if I gotta sell my 1st clutch to a pet store so be it but I’d rather master the craft of breeding while it’s a lil slow so when it picks back up I’ll have some higher end genes and hopefully have my name out there a little bit so I can sell the more expensive ones

This is exactly why I say you should be researching the genes of these animals for yourself as well. To avoid doing something like that. To help you not do that to someone else