I just brought my Sumatran STP Lilith to the vet to get probed. She was sold to me as female almost two years ago. (Yea i know, way to be on top of it Auriea, lol.)
Turns out it’s all a lie. He is a wonderful, very not female, stp. And i am so so so so distraught right now!
I think we were just talking about gender flips. Well this ain’t just gender flips anymore this is a conspiracy.
Let me break it down for y’all, so you can see what I’m talking about. So. (I haven’t done my intro yet so you may not know all of the animals I’m listing, and i will remedy that at some point, but this is my whole personal collection:)
Monty - purchased as M, probed M
Link - purchased as M, probed M
Alister - purchased as M, probed M
Haku - purchased as M probed M
Josette - purchased F, now José
Yin - purchased F, now Zen
Lilith - purchased F, now Pewter
Cleopatra - purchased F, now Leo
Isis - purchased F, now Eros
Every single Female. Every. Last. One. Males. All of them. How is that possible? What are the odds? I am beside myself rn. There was a point not too long ago where I wanted exclusively females. Now it’s looking like football Sunday in my snake room.
I swear if this happens to me one more time I’m gonna set up shop as a snake sexing psychic (at least for males) because apparently my eyeballs have a hidden guy radar that has been foiling my plans for a collection of girls since the very beginning. Unreal.
Without sending sheds off for a DNA test, it’s basically up to the breeder to be experienced in popping/probing, and even then they can get it wrong. Idk how your luck has been so poorly, though, usually if a breeder isn’t sure of the sex, they’ll list the animal as unsexed to avoid issues. Perhaps think about doing DNA testing to be sure, seems more than a little odd that 5/5 purchased females somehow ended up male. Not saying that’s impossible, but the odds are pretty ridiculous.
I would suggest, however, that if you’re purchasing from breeders on MM, you get the animal sexed immediately after arrival or request that they have it DNA tested before shipping. If a breeder lists an animal’s sex without saying it’s questionable, they’re liable to provide you with a full refund and return or exchange.
At least you have a bunch of happy, healthy boys for when you finally get some girls!
Just putting this out there, but maybe since your vet has probed everything as male you should get a second opinion? Have they ever probed a proven female?
I agree. I also have to ask just how experienced your vet is when dealing with STPs? Because I seem to recall that that the females of these animals can be very easily mis-probed as males
Short tails are notoriously hard to sex as @t_h_wyman mentioned. If you let us know what area you live in perhaps one of us could connect you with an STP breeder who’s skilled at sexing.
One thing I have noticed, when males are annoyed they will sometimes evert their own hemipenes. So if any of the ‘females’ has an attitude keep an eye on their vent when they’re being saucy.
Yeah @t_h_wyman I think that is right. Probing isn’t an accurate method for sexing STP’s.
Although I’m unsure if the op’s entire collection is STP’s, if so it would be insane considering how much more common it is for a female to be mistaken for a male rather than vice versa.
I don’t have any proven females so idk personally, but i would assume they have. Their clinic is highly reputable, and both of my vets are keepers themselves… Although they did just tell me that they keep their stp’s similar to ball pythons in temp and that struck as weird to me since everywhere I’ve read, stp’s like it cooler…
I live in the PNW, specifically the Puget Sound. Herp culture is not huge out here like it is further down south or east, but if you know anyone I’d be happy to get a second opinion!
She/he/they are VERY saucy at the vets. (Not so much at home, so I don’t get to see the attitude.) In fact lol, in their file in the description, they are described as a ‘little alligator’ and labeled with a caution: ‘strikes and will death roll.’
Lilith/Pewter (whoever they are lol) is my only stp. The breeds of the others mis-sexed are: BP, MBK, BCI, & Dumerils. Honestly that only makes it all the more strange to me.
When I got my first pair of blood pythons I was surprised to find that the female was packing when I popped her. At first, I thought she was mis-sexed, but after learning more about them I agree with the breeder. The thing about STPs is that the females have rather large scent glands/hemiclitores, so they’re commonly mistaken for males.
I have more experience with ball pythons, so that was a surprise for me. With balls, it’s nearly an all-or-nothing type of situation. With bloods, it’s more a game of who has the bigger pair.
That being said, I’m still fairly new to them! So if someone with more experience wants to chime in, I’m all ears.
Male STP’s probe at 4+ scales deep, females probe at however many scales deep they feel like being (2-5, I’ve read that people have probed proven adult females at 10-12 scales). That’s why popping is a better method and still needs to be verified a few times before sale.
Hector (@7snakes ) is right too about the scent glands in females. Male hemipenes are long, dark, and curl at the end if you’re lucky.
Depends on the species… And the person doing the probing…
Some species have what the hobby calls “pseudohemipenes” and when probing their depth falls toward the minimal end of the range for probing male. People often call these “tweeners” because they are ‘in between’ the range for male/female. These pseduopenes can also be everted when popping, so it makes life difficult
And sometimes the individual doing the probing goes too hard and accidentally punches through the cloacal gland and “oops” you have a “male”
I have seen this too. I noticed that the size is really where the difference is. Sherbet has extremely small spurs but even Sorbet has spurs that are double the size of hers. But I trust your your popping and mine confirmed that as well.
So this is actually pretty easy, since MM paired with RGI. You can find all the information on the genetic tests page. While they only have sex determination tests for BPs, Green Trees, and colubrids available atm, that means you can at least confirm sex on your BPs and MBK. As for the others, I’d suggest a second opinion on probing either from another exotics vet with experience, or better yet, if you can find an established breeder willing to help you out.
I didn’t see a suggestion about the shed testing question you asked so I am suggesting that you check with your reptile vet. A shed can probably be sent via your vet to a lab to verify male/female.
now José
