I’m trying to figure out this female I just picked up. I was told she is a low white pied and I believe this to be true. She has no white on her with the exception of 3-4 white spots on her belly. I don’t think she’s a ringer because she has no traditional alien heads and has a pied pattern.
How respected/established is the breeder? That affects my confidents in superposed hets.
Also any pictures from above so we can see the alien heads?
Tracks are no guarantee of pied. And they are questionable in the pictures to my inexperienced eye anyway.
Still, (in my week opinion, not necessarily het pied related, but nice interesting colours underneath.)
Its all Just an opinion to promote discussion and learning for me.
She was a pet and kept for kids. I normally pick up pets as they are a bit cheaper, but do sometimes come with risk.
I’m leaning towards visual pied.
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We’ve got a lovely high white male we’re going to pair her with next season. We shall see!
That would be a wonderful way to prove her out!
Nice girl. Maybe abit hefty, looks well fed. Without knowing anything about the parentage, I’d say visual pied with low/no white is a fair call.
Great example of what pied is trying to do outside the white patches. Really helps to see that pattern. You can use it to mentally overlay with the patterns from other genes and get an idea of what a combo might look like. Might be a good subject for a pro pic series to add to the database under pied because you don’t often see them with such complete patterning.
In any case, nice pick up and she’s photogenic and friendly, that’s the real combo!
Anyone have thought on what causes low vs high white pied?
I have some blade like (not a proven line) het pied females that have thrown some extremely low white pieds.
Here are siblings I’m sure are pied from their color and an albino cousin that I’m not sure about.
And here is a high white sister of the albino I’m not sure is pied. Their mom is the less blade looking of the het pied sisters.
Enchi and blade will often interact with pied to make low white pied animals. Maybe that’s it.
He is not entirely certain.
I do not have a ton of first-hand experience with Pied but the few No/Low- that I have made/seen had completely clean white bellies, not just the handful of ringer markings like this animal has…
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Stochastic gene expression and/or trans-acting genetic interaction(s)
I don’t know a whole lot about ball pythons, but I think it’s a pied. There could be another morph causing the lack of white but I don’t think it’s enchi. I also noticed this on the marketplace so it might help.
I often see it stated that the amount of white is completely random but I’ve been told otherwise by experienced pied breeders. My experience is limited with just a couple pied clutches but that has been my result as well. High pattern pied to a high pattern pied tends to throw more high patterned pied. Mid pattern pied to a mid pattern pied produces more variation, etc. This is outside of the interaction with other genes that cause high pattern (like enchi) or low pattern (like fire).
It’s a pretty unique specimen. Now that you point it out, I haven’t seen a no white pied without a pied belly. This one definitely has more of a ringer expression.
We will find out next year I suppose. I have a super high white pied male I’m waiting for to pair with her. If she’s a visual pied we will get all pied and if she’s just a ringer or het we will see some normals that are het pied I’m assuming. I have to repost when the time comes. She is a very interesting girl and all of the answers being mixed is quite baffling!
The whole “high white vs low white” question is probably pretty complex.
My $0.02 is:
A. Complex gene interactions are going on that strongly influence the pied expression. We know this happens, lots of breeders have observed it, we even know some of the genes, ie. Fire and Enchi. Which, incidentally, leads to the sometimes unique expressions of those genes in pieds and het pieds.
B. There are probably different lines of stronger and weaker pied. We know pied has shown up several times independently. We know other genes have stronger and weaker expressing lines, why not pied? And several pied breeders have made the comment that they have seen a tendency towards low/high white expression when they line breed. Indeed, there have been a few I have seen that have used statements like “low white line” or “high white line” in their notes on MM as a selling point. Though, I don’t know how well that holds up in subsequent breedings. I suspect one would gave to maintain the “line” aspect when breeding to continue to even somewhat reliably produce predictable offspring.
C. I, personally, think pied is actually a really weak inc dom, which would mean that it will be affected by almost any other genes, even hidden recessive hets, which is going to make solving this really hard.
Just my take. I like an almost even split, with maybe a little lean towards more pattern and color in pied. So for mine, I will be trying for the balance, which might turn out to be the most difficult. We’ll see, any way it turns out will be fun.
