To answer this using the above example. It’s possible that these combos you are seeing are spotnose (4) + others that are also in that 1-4 range… Not visible by themselves but if the combo adds up to 5+ you will start to see something.
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What I meant by single gene was non-super and non-mixed with any other neuro spectrum gene. In the interest of notation I actually marked down the combos I saw with noticeable wobble syndrome at the last big expo I went to. They included a phantom spotnose, pastel calico spotnose, black pastel spotnose het clown, and a simple pastel spotnose. These are all animals I noticed visible (minor) wobble symptoms in, and these are all heterozygous spotnose combos. This isn’t the first time I’ve noticed heterozygous spotnose animals with a wobble
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A expo is a stressful environment for snakes I don’t think it’s a proper place to gauge a snakes “wobble”
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I’ve noticed this in private collections as well, the expo just provided the most recent examples of animals I saw and made note of. But if the stress of an expo is enough for the snake to show a visual wobble, I would propose that that animal is indeed a wobbler in the single gene. We know there are additional symptoms of the wobble syndrome that are harder to notice with the naked eye, so if an animal wobbles at an expo, I’d say it’s extremely likely they have those symptoms at home as well, just not severely enough for it to be visible to the naked eye of the keeper. The “wobble” is just the most severe exhibition of head tremors, no?
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That goes against what most(if not all) people working with a large number of spotnose are saying. Seems like your against wobble genes in general and making baseless statements without any actual proof besides your observations.
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Sorry to supersede you here Matt, but the bug-eye is absolutely associated with the gene. It has to do with the melanocytes not forming a proper basement layer in the developing eye-cup.
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I would rescript this as below:
Bh (-10) ------------------- Normal (0) ------ Cypress, SN, Sable (4) ------------ Champagne, hgw, woma (7) ----- Spider (10)
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spotnose in super form shows the wobble not in single gene form. and to varing degrees in super form.
Once again that is because the SINGLE GENE FORM DOES NOT SHOW WOBBLE . ONLY WHEN COMBINED WITH OTHER KNOWN NEURO MORPHS LIKE CHAMPAGNE AND HGW DO YOU SEE A WOBBLE .
Exactly this 100%. COMBOS ARE NOT SINGLE GENES…
As has been stated by @saleengrinch i have produced more spotnose and spotnose combos than i can count. The ONLY TIME I have seen a wobble is when COMBINED WITH CHAMPAGNE, HGW AND IN SUPER FORM.
Wobbles can also be due to incubation issues, is NOT always caused by defective genes. I have produced all but phantom spotnoses only because i do not have phantom in my collection.
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I don’t agree with the production of neuro genes but that doesn’t mean I make up problems with the genes. I’m not even the one who brought it up this time - I responded to someone else who observed the same thing I did. I wanted to work with spotnose before I noticed it wobble in single gene form, so if I was proven wrong, that would actually be great. Based on my observations, heterozygous spotnose can indeed display minor wobble syndrome symptoms
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I think @wreckroomsnakes covered it completely don’t think I can add anything that hasn’t been said. I am going to error on the side of someone who has produced more spotnose anything than anyone I know.
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On another note, I did notice someone mentioned the issue with super GHIs being extra wrinkly. Was there any thought as to why this might be? I know there are a couple of theories about why spider presents with a wobble, just curious if anyone had similar thoughts on super GHI
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ANY animal exposed to extreme temperature during incubation or even during shipping can cause them to show a wobble. Does that mean every gene then should be classified as a “wobbler” if we go with this line of thinking. 
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Sure, extreme temperature. But an expo is stress, not extreme temperature. I’m not sure how the two relate. We already know that stress (for example, bad husbandry) exacerbates the symptoms of known wobble morphs like spider and champagne. It would therefore stand to reason that stress by itself causes an exacerbation of previously existing symptoms, rather than the brand new creation of wobble in a snake that previously had none, no?
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I’d like to ask about chocolate, as I’ve not heard about wobble in that gene anywhere. Can someone point me to some examples or sources?
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Temperature, stress ect, are all examples of what can cause a wobble without it being related to a wobble defect. By you saying that you noticed it a total of 4 animals at an expo means ALL of them wobble is a bit of a stretch.
The problem here is you have a handful of “observations” of animals that you know zero about with what claim is a “wobble” then labeling EVERY ANIMAL WITH that gene as defective and spreading this as “truth”.
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This 
Is spot on imo
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Wobble morphs bred to wobble morphs cause exacerbated wobble. Spotnose bred to wobble morphs causes exacerbated wobble. Clearly something is present in the genotype that causes that regardless of what you see in the phenotype. It remains in the wobble category for me personally.
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This thread was the first time I had ever heard about it so I doubt the few other actual geneticists/cell biologists/molecular biologists in the hobby have also heard about it and put any serious thought behind it.
When added to the know colour change the morph undergoes, I would posit that it may be something involved in microtubule expression and distribution, but that is just the 15 second hypothesis
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Nobody claimed it wasn’t a “wobble” morph just that it isn’t VISUAL in single gene.
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I have said all i can on the subject. I am just sharing my first hand experience from *more than 10 years * of working with the spotnose gene. I have never seen any of my single gene spotnose or spotnose combos wobble until they were combined with champagne and hgw. The super forrm of spotnose absolutley shows a wobble to varing degrees, no one is denying that either. There is plenty of documentation to prove it.
Just claiming that the single gene form wobbles (spotnose all on it’s own not combined with any other gene) when there is plenty of documentation to the contrary muddys the water and makes it super confusing for new people in the hobby.
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This would be interesting to see if anyone has looked into why some babies will forgo their “first shed” and take on that wrinkly old man look. Could it be an issue with something missing in the yolk or incubation error? I know if have had a few babies over the years that have done this, and i always wondered why…
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