This would be interesting to see if anyone has looked into why some babies will forgo their “first shed” and take on that wrinkly old man look. Could it be an issue with something missing in the yolk or incubation error? I know if have had a few babies over the years that have done this, and i always wondered why…
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I already stated that these animals were non-supers and were not with any other wobbler morph. I’m not saying that EVERY spotnose animal wobbles, but in my experience it seems to happen occasionally/rarely. I understand if you don’t want to continue this any further, I have no interest in continuing this. I just wanted to state this last thing
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Considering @wreckroomsnakes has zero issues pointing out the combos that do wobble I really don’t think she would have a problem pointing out if single gene has a wobble ever. Considering you will be hard pressed to find anyone who has produced more spotnose I think her experiences should count for a lot.
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Your previous comment though implies it, By saying “no one ever mentions the single gene form, just the super” it implies that single gene has one.
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Yes, that’s what I meant. But I don’t think it’s every single individual that shows a visual wobble. Just like how the other wobble morphs sometimes have no visible wobble and sometimes do. Spotnose would just be one that doesn’t show a wobble way more often than not
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I have heard that exact same statement from longtime breeders of both HGW and Champagne. HGWs in my collection generally have no visible wobble, in other people’s collection it acts more like spider. Did all of your spotnose blood come from a single source?
Where I’m at with it is, just because you can’t see it, doesn’t mean it isn’t there genetically. Most of our collections are built on that principle 
. As a breeder I try to consider the genotype as much or more than the phenotype, it’s my personal preference. I don’t have any issues with wobble morphs, I don’t avoid them for any reason, and I’m not trying to be argumentative or trash spotnose in any way. It’s just that it quacks like a duck so to me it’s a duck.
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I’m not trying to “bash” spotnose or any other wobble morph. If spotnose is a wobbler or not doesn’t affect me at all. I just think that if there is a chance that they do wobble (in their non-super/not with other wobble morphs) it’s worth mentioning.
I do find it extremely fishy that spotnose does make the wobble worse when paired with other wobble morphs. I think that’s a huge indicator that we should take a longer look at spotnose and think that maybe it’s not completely “safe”. I’m all for sharing information!
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What’s fishy everyone is on the same page with it being a wobble gene?!?!??!? No one has claimed otherwise just that it isn’t VISUAL in SINGLE gene. You won’t find one single large producer of spotnose that will claim it is.
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Yes! This is worth consideration in my opinion. When we think of wobble as a visible head wobble, it’s likely that the majority of spotnose animals don’t display it. But if we remember that the “wobble” is just the presentation of more severe head tremors by a neurological syndrome that also presents in other ways that are less easy to see (non-visible head tremors, decreased muscle tone near the neck and tail, delayed righting ability, etc.), then whether or not spotnose has a visible head wobble symptom, it’s worth considering the likelihood that the wobble syndrome is there in single gene animals, given the way spotnose interacts with other wobble morphs. Phantom, for instance, won’t have any bearing on the presentation of head wobble when paired with champagne because phantom has absolutely no neurological issues, but spotnose paired with champagne will result in an animal with a severe head wobble. This is an indication to me that single gene spotnose can have the neurological wobble syndrome, regardless of whether it’s severe enough to result in a visible head wobble symptom.
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Can I just say that I love this!?
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That is why they are call combos.
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no i have obtained the spotnose gene thru mulitple breeders over the years.
Interesting every breeder i have ever spoken with has always said champagne and hgw do show a wobble to varing degrees. Even the ones i have produced have shown a wobble to varing degrees.
To each their own, everyone can add or exclude whatever gene they wish.
The misinformation is what i am having an issue with.
spotnose has been around since 2005, you would think by now if the single gene did have a wobble it would be widespread knowledge. Nothing stays a secret in this hobby for long. It all comes out eventually. How much more time do we need?
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Stress can cause all snakes to “shake” their heads slightly, I have experienced this over many species of snakes that I have had the privilege of interacting with. Wild snakes/WC being handed is a great example of a snake in stress. New environments also cause the same type of stress. So yes, an expo is not a wonderful place to decide if an animal has a wobble.
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I wasn’t aware snakes could exhibit a temporary wobble from stressful situations alone. That’s great info to know, thanks!
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so in your experience phantom champagnes do not show any wobble more that what is typical for champagne or is this just speculation again?
Has someone actually linked the wobble to neurological issue? Last i heard it was speculated it had to do with a protein or enzyme missing … 
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If it was a protein or enzyme missing, that would be neurological since that theory involves the brain (nervous system)
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That is so much data collected and observed.
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you are correct that would involve the nervous system, as well as the endocrine system… The point was that there has been no hard data yet to prove what causes the wobble. So far it is just more speculation until we know what the cause is and if it possible to correct it.
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i think justin has me beat on this one. 
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And he agrees with you!
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