I was hoping to post this sooner, but one of the hatchlings from the first clutch mentioned here still hasn’t shed yet. However, this has given me time to confirm sexes for both clutches.
Before we look at offspring identification, I’d like to point out some interesting facts about the sire’s offspring. None of the offspring he has produced seems to be Coral Glow, and although this would seem to suggest to everyone(including myself) that he doesn’t contain that gene then, I strongly don’t believe this to be the case.
This is due to fact, and I expect quite a few people won’t believe this, but from 3 clutches he has only produced female offspring(they have all been popped multiple times and no hemipenes can be seen). Due to him being a male maker, this could explain why none of the offspring are Coral Glow, and I’m not aware of any other ball python trait/morph that causes such unbalanced offspring ratios. However, this does seem to go again the information that can be found here, as it suggests that male makers should product 90% male offspring.
That being said, the dame for the clutch below can be seen here, and it’s also possible that she contains GHI.
Due to there being so many genes at play, it will be hard to identify exactly what they are. However, where I think I know I’ll list what I thinks in them and you guys can agree or correct me.
There is another hatchling I think is a Super pastel leopard mystic/special, which I don’t have a pre-shed photo of at the moment but she can be seen in the clutch photo.
I think you are a bit confused, rightfully so, the sex linked Banana gene can be challenging to wrap your head around. Imagine how confused breeders were in the early days of producing Bananas.
ALL BP offspring have a 50/50 chance of being male or female (with the exception of parthos), regardless of the genetics. Barring the rare crossover event, with respect to Bananas bred to non-Bananas:
A male-maker merely means its male offspring will be Bananas.
A female-maker merely means its female offspring will be Bananas.
A male-maker does NOT only make males and a female-maker does NOT only make females; the sex of a BP is always 50/50.
A female Banana makes male Bananas, female Bananas, male normals and female normals, 25% shot of each.
A male male-maker Banana makes male Bananas and female normals, 50% shot of each.
A male female-maker Banana makes female Bananas and male normals, 50% shot of each.
Three clutches and no males is just very low probability, but not impossible. It has nothing to do with the Banana gene. Now if your male is indeed a Banana and it sires three clutches of all normal females, it 99.99% is a male-maker and you hit the worst odds possible.
If I got any of this wrong, I know people here will gently correct me.
Maybe your coral glow is actually banana. And you got extremely unlucky in your 3 clutches. Cause male makers are banana. And if you have a male maker it would make sense why all your none banana morphs in your clutches where female. But I’m just guessing.
I don’t know enough about malum to really say anything on that front… But could you possibly type out the pairing so it’s easier for people to know what’s there and what else your coral glow has?
If what you say is correct, then the webpage that I linked to must have incorrect information.
However, the chances of getting 13 females from 13 eggs based off a 50/50 probability would be 0.00012207%. Like you said, it’s not impossible but that would be quite unlikely.
If it’s nothing to do with the Banana/Coral Glow gene, then could it just be that he has a very high female sperm count?
The odds of so many non banana female offspring in a male maker banana seems very suspicious. Can we see a photo of him? Also, I would consider shed testing him or at the very least trying the flashlight trick.
Hold a mag light or phone flashlight to the top of the head and look at his eyes. If only his pupils glow red then there’s no banana. If the whole eye glows he’s banana.
If he IS banana…i would love to know what @t_h_wyman can tell us about that. In a smaller number… My female banana tossed 3/3 banana males this clutch. But her other clutch was a more normal 2/5 ratio for bananas but again both were male. She should be tossing a 50/50 ratio of m:f bananas.
Unrelated to sex, I have had a snake throw most of her offspring with lesser gene. Out of 14 hatchlings, only 3 were not carrying lesser. So sometimes weird odds happen.
Actually the probability is 1 / (2 ^ 13), or 0.0001221. That’s 0.01221% chance. Still very, very long odds. But I still believe the Banana morph does not influence whether you’ll get males or females. I don’t believe there is any force that would influence a male BP producing more female sperm than male sperm. And I know incubation temperature does not influence the sex of BP’s. The sex is set the moment the sperm fertilizes the egg.
Are you 100% certain all 13 offspring are female? Are you 100% certain the sire has Banana? There’s something fishy going on there.
You’re correct for the % chance. I was using this to calculate and looking at the probability section. I’m as sure as I can be that at least 12 of them are female(using the popping method), one died a week or so after hatching so only popped the once.
As for the sire to the clutches, his parents can be seen in this photo.
I know that is states there that he’s a Super Pastel Coral Glow Mojave, but from the clutches I’ve produced with him I think it’s safe to say he’s Mystic & Special instead of Mojave.
The listing doesn’t say Mojave. It says mystic special
The breeder was able to better ID after a few sheds it seems and had it listed correctly for sale.
I’m not sure how that invalidates the ad which comes AFTER the Facebook post. Unless you bought them off Facebook on that post and did not purchase him on MorphMarket.
I had to update a female holdback because genetic testing proved her to be super Mojave and not Mojave special. IDs at hatching are not always 100% correct.
Which does make me wonder if he is even CG though. The flashlight test is a super easy way to find out. =\
The Facebook post saying he’s Mojave does not matter. You purchased him as a Mystic special. Not Mojave.
It’s why I don’t understand you even bringing up Mojave and proving him out as mystic special because he wasn’t sold as a mojave. The breeder realized he was wrong and just didn’t update the Facebook post that came before the ad.
Again, I am wondering if he is even CG. If you don’t run the flashlight test, I would recommend having him shed tested. You can 100% verify the BEL genes through it as well just in case he’s not. You can also verify the black pastel if you want since the pairing listed says pastel Crystal to super pastel Mystic Potion. Not black pastel Crystal.
Female makers can throw males
Male makers can throw females
It’s not 100% every time.
I cannot verify the sexes myself.
I don’t know what your method is, but popping can be wrong. I always probe my female hatchlings before listing them just in case because not every male has popped. I also have seen this happen with other breeders as well where a popped female later proves male.
Out of the 12 he has sired, I have 7 here with me and 4 more with family members. Due to what you said, I went through last night and probed all 7 that I have(twice on both vents), and can confirm that 1 has probed male.
The one that has probed male is number 1 in the clutch.
