So first…I’m happy to integrate other points of view and adjust as my comprehension changes. As always, I want to address each point carefully because this is a topic rife with incredibly strong conceptions but with very little in the way of observation, experience, or evidence beyond my own.
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I don’t want to cause undue stress to my animals. My aim is exactly the opposite, as I’ve exhaustively detailed throughout this thread. Specifically, my claim is that animals almost universally benefit from social contact, and that I overwhelmingly sense that benefit in all of its subtlety day in and day out with my own collection. I don’t discount the stress of this specific experience. If I were to observe things like this more regularly, it would give me a whole lot of pause. But as it stands the rate of conflict or obviously measurable social stress still seems lower than almost any creature I’ve ever observed…
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I don’t want to cut corners on husbandry…please forgive this defense against that characterization. I have extra racks right in front of me, earn solid income, work from home and coffeeshops, and spend a lot of time with my collection. I made a point to invest in extra racks so that I could separate my cohabs if needed. I put my cohab racks and terrariums in the office space where I spend about half my day on average, so my animals get a ton of observation and attention. If I decide it’s better to separate them, I can do that in an instant. It would actually make husbandry easier, because I wouldn’t have to spend so much time separating and feeding. If I observed an interaction that made me feel like I’ve mischaracterized the ‘bigger picture’ and thus gave me doubt for their ongoing safety, I believe that I would make that choice immediately across the entire collection. I really don’t want to lose an animal. These are my pets and I enjoy and care about them enough that I frankly choose to keep most hatchlings. As it stands this hobby makes up <1% of my income and takes increasing investment that I’m happy and able to make. Also, it’s important to me that I put my real name on the line with every post I make here; I want to be accountable for the claims that I make. When something went wrong, I chose to post it immediately rather than keep it to myself. As a matter of values, I really try not to cut corners…I try to work hard to feel productive, to contribute where I can, and to better understand life. I hope this thread conveys that to at least some degree.
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It’s absolutely true that this is not a perfect experimental context. I’m also not trying to make a univariate scientific claim. Animal husbandry is multivariate and complex, though it should obviously be informed by more rigorous research. But most of what we practice in zoology and pet-keeping comes from trial and error. There’s a good reason for that; it’s far more practical, and (I believe) a sense for complexity - and empathy - matter as much as data. I started doing this because I saw a whole lot of strongly held and widely repeated beliefs, but absolutely no trial. That immediately struck me as very odd. Controlled research didn’t seem to be an absolutely necessary first step. However, if you could suggest a controlled experiment that would leave you more confident in the insights, I would happily run it.
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I agree 100% that I need to scale up their habitat. I’m planning to build out a few more terrariums that I bought recently specifically for last year’s hatchlings, which I have kept together in 32qt tubs because they in total took up maybe 15-20% of the space. For hatchlings that I literally left together in-rack with their mother for a few months, a large terrarium initially felt like an upgrade that was eventually important but not hugely pressing. I’m a big believer in more space, plants, resources, sensory stimulation, etc.
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Heat is in the back of the rack; it’s from CSerpents. I use cork bark hides in my tubs, but I often take them out when I’m feeding or handling 'cause it makes it easier to separate the animals. Picture was from shortly after I put them back, while I’m opening the tubs around them feeding others…so you’re totally on point that they’re in alert mode. But they also weren’t afraid to be together, and the three weren’t prioritizing heat resources. Attached a pic from right now showing them much more relaxed, and I could post similar pics for days…but would that change your opinion?
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All of my snakes, whether cohabbed or solitary, are more active prone to tracing their rack when they’re hungry. Is that not common? If it happened consistently and with my cohabbers only I would agree, but that’s really not the case.
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When I described ‘flush against the front of tub,’ I specifically meant when they noticed fresh activity in the room. I see this as a social behavior - they have the front right corner that 2+ will pile against at once and just rest there with their heads near the top crack until an hour or so passes or I open the tub and interact with them. Two of them are more prone than the others. If I start massaging the back of one, he/she will generally slither up into my hand. The video I posted shows some of this behavior but not all; I’ll take another to make this more clear.
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Not yet sure where I fall on separating male and female clutchmates. I am sensitive to the fact that their hormones change, and have tried to pay attention to that in my observations. I have a pair of BEL clutchmates I’ve kept together since purchase and only recently separated for breeding. They never linked with each other but immediately bred with others. In general I’ve found little sex-associated difference in habitation behavior.
