Hi.
I have a panda female that I’d like to breed more of, for obvious reasons. I don’t have another panda to breed her with, so I have heard I can do it one of two other ways: Breed her to a cinnamon pied (to reduce birth defects) or to breed her with a black pastel pied.
When I type those options in the calculator, the black pastel seems to be the only way, so I need some clarity.
Thoughts on this???
A lot of people have been avoiding making combos with super cinny/black pastel due to birth defects (severe kinking). Even breeding the two together can cause issues. Many have been moving away from cinny/black pastel and instead they are working with mahogany. Super mahogany, or suma, have no known birth defects and you get a dark snake just like the other combos. Suma pieds look almost the same as panda pied, but without any issues. I would recommend working towards suma pied project instead of bothering mixing those two genes. Get yourself a mahogany/suma pied/het pied male for her. Abyss (suma ghi) pied combos are going to be very popular in the future due to the fact that neither gene carries any chance of defects, so I would also recommend that over projects with black pastel/cinnamon. They also create even darker snakes that don’t fade as much over time from the reports.
To be clear Black pastel and cinnamon combos on their own in single gene form do not have defects. Super form can have defects.
Super Black pastel Pied is the only way to make a true panda. Cinnamon black pastel is technically an 8 ball pied but looks very close to a panda pied.
Another really cool very dark combo is the suma cinnys. Probably the darkest combo I’ve ever seen. I’m sure that the suma cinny pieds would look exactly like the BP Pieds.
We produce panda pieds from a black pastel het pied(female) to a back pastel pied (male). We haven’t had any defects in years. All of our black pastels are from the same line and purchased from reputable breeders.
There are many ways to produce panda pieds.
It will not matter the outcomes whether with 8Ball Pied or Super Cinny or Black Pastel Pied will be the same, you will have be more likely to produce mildly to severely kinked animals.
The majority of people I know that have worked on those have decided to stop and for good reasons.
There is also a reason why there are not many on the market 
That being said there are alternative to similar looking animals Super Mahogany Pied and Super Blackhead Pied
I know that the genes by themselves have no issues. I meant the genes together but forgot to add super before them lol. I wrote it at like 6am when I hadn’t been asleep. I was also referring to the 8-ball combo later. From what I have heard the 8-ball can have issues too.
I have a black pastel pied male and female I will breed and see what happens. So now–I just need to work out with to do with my Panda pied female. I was planning on breeding her to the black pastel pied male…
Sell whatever panda pieds you make. That’s my advice. I have heard from several breeders panda’s don’t make good breeder’s. No first hand experience but I have no reason to doubt them.
I’m also going to be trying to get pandas. Let’s just hope we beat the ugly odds. I’m going to try and incubate them low and slow. Hopefully it’ll help will defects🤞Good luck🍀I love this girl so much, can’t wait to pair her up!
Since you have her I’d try to pair him to both, but that’s just me. I haven’t yet had to go through the heart aches. I’ll see if I can stomach the results.
Update: We decided against the panda project for obvious reasons. We got rid of the male. We’re still working on getting ultra pieds.
Smart post wreck-Room!
Breeders and hobbyists, Please Don’t call an “almost” Panda a Panda.
Remember:
If a breeder ever uses the word “almost” or “like” or “similar”… the results are a wannabe not a True version.
Think about it like this:
Almost black means what exactly? Almost white means what exactly? Almost all German or Italian or Irish etc means what exactly???
These almost results all mean the same…
they are what you “Want” & strive for but they are certainly “Not” …what you are going to “produce” when you substitute a single gene!!! Impossible!
That’s why a Lexus is not called a Toyota!
Similar and same company behind both products…just double the price 
