Coming back to parthno, are they always produced with no pairing? Is it possible to have parthno offspring in a clutch where the male has donated genetic information? Does pairing help stimulte a female to go on to produce a parthenogenesis clutch?
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If I’m not mistaken you can have a split partho clutch.
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I’ve been thinking a little bit about partho clutches and are most partho laying females older? If so it would seem like they lay partho because if a female can live that long in the wild there should be more of them to strengthen the genetic population, kind of like another level of natural selection.
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As Shawn noted below, it is not uncommon to see clutches that have both parthenogenetic and sexually produced offspring in them.
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As far as snakes go, that has yet to be determined. There are some lizard species that require mating for clutch production though.
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No, we just sort of have a false impression on that because the ones that make the news are solo animals from zoos and such that tend to have been alone in those collections for a long time. But when you look within the hobby itself it is not uncommon to see first time clutches being partho
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Hi, does anyone know if it’s possible to get males in Partho clutches? Have a pastel Bourgogne female who was paired only to a firefly dg- 6 eggs only 3 made incubation. Pastel Bourgognes and a super pastel Bourgogne Male- no way the firefly is het for Bourgogne. So really confused- female was never bred beforehand. Thanks
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It’s not possible. It might be possible to have a split partho clutch but I’m not positive. There’s a good discussion about males in partho clutches here:
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Well, that confuses the clutch even more! Thankyou for that.
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It is documented that you can split parth/sexual clutches
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You could not get a Pastel in a partho clutch either.
Perhaps male is not het for Burg but is het for one of the other alleles in the group
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I recently had what I believe is a parthenogenic clutch. I bought a pair from another breeder, an axanthic male and a fire pastel yb het axanthic female. The pair had produced a clutch last year of various combinations of fire, pastel, yb and axanthic/het axanthic. I paired them again for this year, and the mom produced 5 eggs, one died in the egg before hatching. The other 4 hatched successfully, all females.
To my surprise, 3 of the hatchlings are leucistics. At first I thought maybe the father is a fire axanthic, just because of the leucitic babies. But upon reading about parthenogenic clutches and how the moms genes doubles up in the babies, I realized my clutch might well be parthenogenic. The last baby which I initially thought was a fire pastel, could well be a super pastel. Not sure if this matters, but upon checking my breeding records, there were no witnessed locks from the pair this season. Am I right that I most likely have a parthenogenic clutch?
My next concern is the viability and fecundity of the hatchlings. The hatchlings all seem healthy for the most part, just a little weaker than usual. A little slower to get to feed, etc. Is it confirmed that all hatchlings from Partheno clutches do not survive or do not breed well?
Thank you for your help.
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Most likely they are Ivory combos
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That would be the most likely candidate
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Pretty much, yeah.
Jump over to The Reptile Gumbo Podcast from last night. Warren and I (mostly Warren) talked pretty extensively on this topic
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I was thinking actually super fires, but yes they could be ivories, or I guess even both?
Wow ok thank you so much! Will look into the Podcast!
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I missed that there was Fire in the pairing, so yes you are correct that they could be SuperFire or SuperFire/Ivory
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So I need some help. I just bought a snake from a Partheno clutch. Mom was Cinnamon + GHI + Mojave. Baby is all white. Breeder has her listed as Super Mojave POS Super Cinnamon, and Super GHI. Any insights on accurate genes of the baby?
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I’m pretty sure if Partho then baby should be exactly the same morph as mum.
Also I’m unsure if can be bred?…
I’ll tag @saleengrinch and @t_h_wyman as may be more help!
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No, they’re usually half clones → haploid chromosomes being duplicated to a dipoid state. So for example if the mom was a het pied, babies would either be homozygous normal or homozygous pied (visual)
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Ah so Snakes are different than other reptile?
Cresties for instance are little clones of mum 
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Super mojaves also have grey heads. So assuming yours does too?
Or will the other genes influence this? I haven’t seen any take the head colour away myself, but would be cool if you could… 
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Infertile in ball pythons and have shortened life spans.
This👆🏻 @chesterhf is the other legit genetics expert on here. I just dabble lol
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The genetics will be super mojave, super cinnamon, super GHI. Everyone already explained why. Additionally she may not live very long and she won’t be able to breed.
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Not necessarily. It depends on chromosomal segregation during meiosis. There are four possibilities for what this animal could be:
SuperMojave
SuperCinny SuperMojave
SuperGHI SuperMojave
SuperCinny SuperGHI Super Mojave
As for what @beachratsandballs’s animal is… That is going to be hard to tell. If you have a blacklight, you can try hitting it an looking for pattern. I would imagine a SuperCinny SuperMojave would be totally patternless. I am not certain how SuperGHI might impact any underlying patterning. If the head is not the characteristic grey-ish of a SuperMojave then it would lend toward a combo, but again, not sure which would damp the head colour down (or both might so… 
) If there is any indication of duckbilling or kinking then you can pretty much bet on SuperCinny.
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Also, @beachratsandballs, as has been noted, your animal should probably not be bred and there is a fairly high likelihood that it will have a truncated lifespan.
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I am not sure that this has been genetically proven to be the case. I would guess that they, like snakes, are half-clones and not full clones
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