Can a null allele happen in conjunction with parthenogenesis? I have a friend who has produced a super cinny from partho which also has pastel. He thinks there is only a single copy of pastel involved.
My understanding is that a partho offspring will create a super ?
Any geneticists please advise 🖒
@fireflypied what was the mom’s genetics? I produced super mojaves and a super enchi hypo from a mojave enchi het hypo female who laid a partho clutch.
Let’s tag some people that can share some light on the subject @warren_booth @cold-heartedexotics @t_h_wyman
Mum was a pewter.
If you had a partho clutch from a Pewter than you would get SuperPewter (i.e., SuperCinny SuperPastel), SuperCinny, SuperPastel, and WT. You could not get a single gene Pastel out of it. 
Thanks for the clarification. This is what I thought would be the case.
Sorry, I just aw this. Yeap, Travis nailed it. Basically, any alleles present in the mother as a heterozyous state, will be homozygous in the parthenogenetic offspring. So, Lets say the mother is het albino. The parthenogen would be normal, or albino. Not hets would be produced.
Warren
Parthogenesis is the replication of any, or all of the females possible genetics without fertilization from a male. In this case with a Pewter you could get Normals, Cinnys, Pastels and Pewters (and they would all be females).
Null allele is different, and a lot of people confuse this with parthogenesis. For a simple example- In the event of a Super Cinny from a Cinny that would be a null allele. In other words, there is one non functional copy of the Cinny in the Super Cinny. You can breed that Super Cinny all you want and you will not produce all Cinnys.
Warren and I have both posted the accurate results of what partho generates, what you have posted here is completely incorrect.
From work done by Warren, “null allele” is not happening in our animals. every case he has seen where “nuller” was claimed turned out to be androgenesis
What is androgenesis? Not come across.this term before?
Sorry for slow reply, been off grid.
Androgenesis is most easily thought of a male parthenogenesis; The only genetic contribution in the embryo/offspring comes from the male.
Do we know what happens if we breed an andro to a partho?
To the best of my knowledge no one has ever done this.
I do know that Warren has found, from breeding parth animals that he produced, that their viability and fecundity is really low. If memory serves me, all the parth animals he has bred have passed.
Has does androgenisis work with reptiles? Does an egg play any part?
$2 overview: A sperm combines with an egg that lacks any genetic payload. The Chromosomes from the sperm get doubled and then zygote development continues like normal.
Hi, very interested in this topic! Do you mean the offspring from the parth snakes have passed or that the original parth snakes themselves have died?
Do you know whether a ball python from parthenogenesis that hatches and is “viable” without visible defects has a normal life expectancy?
Really appreciate your insight!
Yes. Which is to say, both of these occur. Partho animals that make it past hatchling stage tend to burn out around the two-three year mark. If one makes it up to breeding size and mates, their clutches are almost always serious train wrecks and, very frequently, the mother dies shortly after laying/birthing.
Thank you! One more question if you don’t mind… do partho babies always get ALL the maternal genes? for example if a lesser het axanthic female reproduced parthenogenically would all the babies be super lesser visual axanthic females or would there be a mix of super lessers, visual axanthics and super
Lesser visual axanthics?
I really appreciate your insight, I have what I believe to be a split partho/sexual Clutch but am trying to confirm the genetics in order to be sure!
Happy to share photos and more specific info if you’re interested…
thanks again
Cassandra
Again, yes and no.
Yes, all the genes are maternal (out of necessity since dad does not contribute) but no, all of the morphs are not necessarily inherited. Using your example, a Lesser het Ax has two gene pairs we would look at: Lesser/nonLesser and Ax/nonAx. Meiosis causes segregation and reduction to single alleles from each gene pair. So your possibilities are nonLesser::nonAx, Lesser::nonAx, nonLesser::Ax, and Lesser::Ax. These would produce offspring that are: WT, SuperLesser, Ax, and SuperLesser Ax
That makes sense thank you - Ok so here is what I’m looking at… and I’d love to know what your think this baby is…
Female - lesser spider het axanthic
Male - axanthic stripe
All other hatchlings are what you would expect from that pairing: spider axanthic, lesser spider axanthic etc. BUT this one female (there were also two dud eggs that weren’t slugs but didn’t make it through to hatching) is predominantly white with white and ivory patterning, she has blue eyes too.
Before I forget the female that produced this clutch has only ever been paired to axanthic stripe, never to a lesser so retained sperm is not an option, she has also never been is a situation where accidental mating could have occurred.
So this baby looks like she could either be a super lesser visual axanthic or even possibly also super spider. I realize super spiders are normally a lethal combo but I wasn’t sure if this is the case in parthogenic reproduction.
Her markings are very reminiscent of various Leucistic/ spider combos that I have seen and I know the spider patterning appears different when combined with Leucistics.
She has no physical abnormalities that I can see BUT compared to clutchmates (like the axanthic spider in the photo) she is thin and generally kind of weak looking and feels “soft”
If that makes sense. She has shed and eaten!
Desperate for more expert input and I can’t find any examples of a super lesser axanthic to compare her too and obviously if she is a partho we will never breed her so perhaps we will never know if she has the elusive super spider genes too!
I so so appreciate your patience, I am far from an expert and fascinated by this little one!
Any wisdom gratefully received…
Cassandra ![image|453x500]
(upload://kU5Hvr9e85LxRJJhFN32UmMSUtk.jpeg)
