Possible genetic mix issue?

So I am curious if anyone has heard of any potential issues with any of the genes in a sugar platinum x bumblebee pairing? Last year I lost most of the eggs during incubation, only 4 made it to hatch. One failed to thrive and died early on and one had a very severe kink in the spine and fused belly. Of the two remaining, lesser pastel and queen bee, they seem ok, I still have them. I repeated the pairing this year, got 8 eggs one infertile. All made it to hatch, hit like 5 sugars of the seven, very pretty babies. However, not long after, likely after they shed and being moved to individual tubs did I notice one with a prolapsed hemipene. Contacted vet, had to meet with him about another snake so took that baby as well as a sibling that I happened to notice with a slightly out of place jaw. On the boy he tried to get the hemipene back in, reco to continue soaking and if it didn’t improve it might have to be removed. He tried to probe the other side and could barely get the probe in so suddenly both of us are like “huh”…very odd to have this much stuff presenting from two separate clutches. The other 5 seem fine but I’m going to take them to him and have him look them over well. The one with the jaw issue he wants to xray as it appears to him the skull and jaw might not be formed completely. It’s eating just fine right now but not sure what the prognosis might be as it grows and that part doesn’t. Likely the whole clutch will wind up being pet-only but they are beautiful.

Sugar platinum to bumblebee…any known issues that anyone is aware of?


I don’t know any genetic issues with those morphs paired together. So if you break it down you have:
sugar, het. Daddy, lesser x pastel, spider
I have seen and bred some queen bee type stuff, have seen calico in spider, but I haven’t used seen het daddy stuff or sugar, but still don’t see a genetic issue between these genes. You said your previous clutch a lot were lost in the incubation? Is there a fluctuating temp issue? I know a lot of under developed/malformed hatchlings could be caused by this. It really does sound like something going on with 4 out of 12 having issues, I guess it could be very bad luck/odds!
Wait and see if anyone with more experience in all these genes has anything for you, but I would make sure everything on your incubator is working as it should, just in case that is the cause.


Awww, little guy looks like his jaw just kinda slides to the side.

I agree with @banereptiles on the incubator being the more likely culprit than the genetics involved. What kinda of incubator setup is it? Is this the only 2 clutches you’ve had? Are temps always steady and where is the temp probe vs the egg box location?

For the ones with issues, do you have a list of the genetics in each? For example, spider and champagne cause a lethal defect, but other clutchmates that don’t carry that combination of genes will be fine. Were all of the hatchlings involved here carrying the same mix of gene? Like all the het. Daddy spiders? I see a few het daddy sugars and lesser sugars in the MM sales history. I don’t see het daddy sugar spiders for example.

While rare, there could be something at work with the non-morphological genetic makeup that could be affecting this pairing as well. Have both been previously proven? If one hasn’t they may have a predisposition to problematic clutches and should avoid being bred in the future.


Yeah that’s why last year I chalked it up to something involving the incubator. Repeated the pairing and 2 of the 7 have visible issues. I’m eager to have him examine the whole clutch. I got a queen bee last year and she seems fine save for a very slight head wobble but that’s not alarming at all with the spider. I only had 3 clutches this year, the other two were fine so if it was the incubator it didn’t bother them. Same with last year, 5 clutches and only that one had any issues.


Its a CSerpents Hot Box 36 I think. Kept my temp at 89, think thermostat set to 90. I have a large water chamber inside and the probe is hanging down to about the middle I think. The water container is on the top shelf then I start setting egg boxes on the second and move down if need be.

1 Like

The funky jaw one is a queen bee sugar I believe, the other with the hemipene problem…I forget off hand and had to have someone help and didn’t write it down on that one.I was talking to a couple breeders today actually about what you mentioned with genetics. The bumblebee has had healthy large clutches in the past. The sugar platinum was a baby when I got him so these are his only two groups of offspring. They suggested the same, maybe try breeding him again do a different girl and see what comes of it.


Aside from the known “wobble” in Spider. t here is nothing about combos of those morphs that should increase your potential for issues.

Some pairings just end up being poor because of the individual animals. I had an entire clutch crap out within 48 hours this season about two weeks after first shed. Nothing outwardly wrong with any of them (have not opened them up yet). They were in the same rack with two other clutches and none of them have had any issues. I will not be repeating the pairing