I have a female ball python who has been refusing to eat since March despite ideal husbandry conditions (listed at end of post for those interested) and trying just about everything under the sun. She’s gone from casual interest in her food to violently flinching away from it when offered. (Initially I was trying every 7-10 days, but she showed 0 interest if it wasn’t on a day the rest of the crew was getting fed). I was not initially concerned because she’s never been a good eater, and some issues with ambient temperatures in the house that the thermostats couldn’t compensate for caused everyone to go off food, and I assumed she was just slower getting back to normal than the others. (The issues were fixed and I’ve got a plan for preventing them next year)
She’s started to lose weight and just had her third shed since them, despite humidity of 80% they’ve all been terrible, lots of stuck shed, and what she does get off is in tiny pieces. The last two it looked like she lost some scales on her head but that actually looks better after this one.
Early in this period she also developed a little bit of mouth rot under her chin and touching her lip, which I’ve been treating with topical antibiotic at the vet’s instruction. While it has improved, it has been extremely slow progress.
Clearly there is something more seriously wrong than pickiness about husbandry or food type.
I have a vet appointment scheduled, but they couldn’t get me in until the end of August, and I’m wondering:
What are the likely (and unlikely but possible) diagnosis I might be facing and what care should I be preparing myself for?
What can I do to support and monitor her in the meantime? Obviously I’m going to keep an eye on her weight and continue to treat the mouth rot and look for any other issues that might develop, but is there anything else that might be helpful?
I’m about to move everyone out of the rack and into larger enclosures. In her case I am torn between moving her so that she can have temperature and humidity micro-environments to choose from vs keeping her where she is to avoid the stress of adapting to a new space.
Husbandry Parameters:
Humidity: Between 60% and 80%
Temperature: 88F to 92F hot side. 80F - 83F cool side
I originally had things set about 3* cooler but bumped them up to see if that would help, and she didn’t respond but my other picky eater definitely did so I’m keeping them where they are.
Substrate: Coconut husk.
Decor: Hide, 4" water bowl, changed twice a week and washed weekly, fake leaves, flowers, some small pottery pieces, small piece of cork bark. Removed and replaced when dirty.
Cleaning: Spot cleaning every other day, deep cleaning every 2-3 months.
Handling: Every 2 to 3 days for topical abx, now also a weight check every week.
Not eating and poor sheds are unfortunately not very telling symptoms, and could be almost anything, so only the vet will be able to give you an answer. In the mean time, i would personally just keep an eye on her like you’re already doing, and then see if there’s anything else that could be tweaked with the husbandry. Does she have enough hides, does she have enough decor to help her shed, are your hygrometer and thermometer working correctly, does she have UVA etc
I would move her to another tub with only paper towels instead of substrate, a water bowl and of course 2 hides. Also her temps are too high. 86 to 88 degrees is perfect for bps with 40 to 50 percent humidity.
Do you have any Repti Soak? It has electrolytes that are good for snakes. If not, soaking in regular water is ok. It sounds like she is dehydrated so regular soaking is going to help her with sheds.
It sounds to me that you definitely have a sick snake. Thus she has no appetite. If I am sick I don’t feel like eating either.
If it were me I would most importantly make it a number one priority to find another reptile vet ASAP. I would Not wait a month and a half to get her help. She may have an infection of some sort.
Also do not continue to offer her food at this point because you are just adding to her stress. Good luck and hopefully you will be able to get her some vet attention Soon……
I really prefer to keep them on substrate vs paper towels unless there’s an urgent reason not to, I live somewhere with very variable weather so keeping consistent humidity on paper is a nightmare. I know the temps are higher than recommended, but my other picky eater has been eating much more regularly since I bumped them, and there don’t seem to be any adverse effects on the others. Once everyone is in their own enclosures (vs the rack) I can set his higher and everyone else can be at the lower temp.
She definitely drinks and pees and doesn’t have any other signs of dehydration other than the bad sheds, but she’s going to get a spa day to get the stuck shed off, and I’ll add some plain pedialyte for electrolytes.
Unfortunately the only other options in my area are non-specialists (or “specialists” aka “took a couple courses on exotics during med school” and I’ve been strongly recommended against) or the practice associated with a prestigious vet school where it costs $200+ to walk in the door (I have used them in the past for an emergency situation but they are way out of my price range for anything that isn’t immediately life or death). I will be calling my vet to see if there are cancelations any sooner, but unfortunately my options are wait or start a go-fund-me.
The fact that all your snakes are having issues with shedding seems to suggest that there’s a common environmental variable across all their enclosures that isn’t quite right. Are you sure your hygrometer(s) is working and reading correctly? How often are you replacing their water? It sounds like everyone is potentially a bit dehydrated.
Your temps sound a little high to me. I wouldn’t have your hot spot any warmer than 88F, which should bring everything else down a few degrees as well. That could possibly be contributing to the shedding issues.
You might try an electrolyte soak, especially with your girl who hasn’t been eating. I’ve never used it myself, but I’ve heard of it working wonders for non-feeders, and the extra hydration might help with shedding issues to boot.
I’ll also just add the caveat that I’m not a ball python person, but I keep another species of terrestrial python with similar husbandry requirements.
I guess I’m just looking for what “almost anything” usually includes to give me some tangible possibilities to focus on rather than nebulous fretting.
I can’t give her UV in the rack but I could put it in her new enclosure. Perhaps that’s another good reason to lean toward moving her. I will also be able to fit more hides and decor and a bowl big enough to soak in if she wants.
Oh, not every one is having shedding issues, just her. There was a mass food strike when she initially stopped eating due to temp fluctuations (now I have bluetooth thermo/hygrometers so I can track temps much more closely) and everyone but her went right back on food after I fixed the temp issue. She’ll get a spa treatment for the stuck shed and I’ll add some electrolytes.
Water is replaced every 2 to 3 days, bowls are washed weekly. The temps were lower but I bumped them to see if that could stimulate her appetite (it didn’t but my other picky eater reacted very positively to the change, and no one has responded negatively so I’m keeping them a little high until I can set everyone’s temp individually).
Ball pythons do not need uvb. I will get a lot of flack for this statement but I have 13 in my collection housed in large tubs without uvb and they are all thriving……
Also @trails_ahead I forgot to suggest that you can put the water bowl in your bps enclosure closer to the heat source. If you are using overhead heating/heat light, that will dry out the enclosure quicker than uth.
As I understand it, they do not need uv, they can survive just fine without it, but modern studies have show there are health benefits when they do have access to it. I think of it like space to climb, not necessary, but beneficial.
She is beautiful and she does not look in distress or anything. So after seeing her picture
I would just continue regular soaks as well as the ointment on her mouth and give her several weeks to regenerate a bit and then off her foot. Bps can go many months without eating and this girl looks like she still had good weight.
I have a girl that went off food for several months and now she’s chowing down again. I would get some Repti Soak. You can get it on Amazon and it doesn’t cost that much.
After several weeks offer her a size or two smaller than her regular rodent…
Gotcha. Reading your initial post again, I’m realising that I misread the part about the bad sheds.
Definitely keep your vet appointment, and perhaps ask them to notify you if a spot opens up sooner. Hunger strikes are not uncommon with bps, but the weight loss and bad sheds are a little more concerning. Combined with the mouth rot, it does sound like something might be going on. If she’s got some other underlying issues, that could have made her more susceptible to stuff like mouth rot. How much weight has she lost since this all started in March?
I’m of two minds on the issue of moving her to another enclosure. On the one hand, moving her will cause some degree of stress, which could put her off food even more. On the other hand, she’s not eating in her current enclosure, so maybe a more drastic change will help. That said, I think I’d advise against moving her into a larger enclosure. Smaller spaces usually make stressed snakes feel more secure, and having a small, simple enclosure will also make it easier to monitor her.
Didn’t you say you’re treating her for mouth rot? You’re just letting the bark stick to the ointment after? I would absolutely set her up in a tub with paper towels until that’s resolved. That may be why it’s slow to heal.
Either a smaller tub or her current enclosure. I would not put her into anything new and larger. That’s more stress.
It’s difficult to say from that photo. The weight loss could be a couple of things.
How old is she? It sounds like maybe she was ovulating. A lot of snakes will go off feed when it’s time. And get little attitudes too.
Has she been bred at all? If you hold her up and let her back half dangle a bit, does she have a noticeable bulge?
I would personally definitely try giving her some UVA in the new enclosure, UVA (either in combination with UVB through a tube, or simply by using an incandescent bulb) stimulates their appetite so it sometimes helps on picky eaters - My boy never went on super long food strikes but he was quite picky when he was younger (would only eat pied rats from a specific shop lol), giving him UVA through a basking bulb rather than a CHE did wonders now he eats whatever he’s offered be it rats or chicks. Like you said, UVB isn’t needed as such but it is definitely beneficial for pretty much all reptiles. If you do move her, make sure that it is well set up, with several hides and decor otherwise it might stress her more, but if she’s already not eating it can really only get better. I also personally am not a fan of paper towels unless there’s a good reason, so i wouldn’t move her unless like Armiyana said you’ve noticed it interfering with your mouth rot treatment. But yeah, she still looks good, and you’ve already booked an appointment with the vets, I wouldn’t be too worried for now personally
So, it sounds wild but with the rescues I’ve had with mouth rot I found that after abx, once the infection was out of the mouth and only on the chin they actually recovered faster with the substrate providing consistent humidity vs the cleaner towels but fluctuating humidity. I did also ask my vet about it at our last visit and his opinion was that it was minor enough that he wasn’t inclined to prescribe paper-towels since keeping changes minimal to get her eating again was more important. But now that it seems she’s definitely not going to eat anyway it might be worth switching her over and seeing what happens. We’ve also got higher ambient humidity now that it’s summer so consistency will be easier.
She’s 4, hasn’t been bred, no bulge, so hopefully I don’t have to worry about surprise eggs
Well there is still the issue of her being of breeding age. Parthenogenesis can still occur. And even if she didn’t produce eggs, she could still ovulate and that can lead to infections if her body doesn’t properly reabsorb the ova.
Without the bulge it’s not going to be an issue like eggbinding would. But that infection risk can still be there.
Otherwise she’ll hopefully start eating for you again soon. Multiple shed cycles that quickly without it being an ovy and pre-lay shed does indicate that she is stressed and having other issues though. Even my females that are still off food but don’t look to be gravid don’t shed like that. I’ve personally only ever seen that with more severe skin damage or with some sort of infection.
Definitely glad she has an appointment lined up. I hope she stays stable til then. I would ask the vet about a fecal swab for parasites or possible bloodwork. But obviously if things change she definitely should see a vet sooner than later.
I agree with @armiyana She could be working on an infection. Sometimes infections on the inside can manifest themselves on the outside, eventually. I am glad you are thinking about moving her to paper towels at least for a short while. It’s just my warped imagination but I think she may be more comfortable.
Definitely keep up with the soaking and hopefully your vet will have a cancellation so you can get her in sooner. Until then you are kinda in limbo and I can’t imagine how that must feel.
I don’t think she is going to feel like eating anytime soon though so I would give her some space……
