Looking for some help here. What particular disease or illness would be an explanation for why a snake’s lower half would go limp? I seem to have had back to back healthy snakes have this issue and pass away even after vet care. I’m concerned it’s something moving thru my animals. I posted a few months ago about a baby that pushed her way out of a tub and when we found her she was in seemingly bad shape. We figured it was an injury while it was roaming around. I got reprimanded pretty heavily for not taking the snake to a vet (it was closed for the weekend) and so I did on the Monday. She didn’t make it. Then it was an adolescent male same symptoms out of nowhere. Vet right away. Gone. Now an adult male. Just started expressing the same limp body. It’s apparently this pattern. At first the snake regurgitates a few meals. Then suddenly becomes lethargic. Then lower half of body becomes limp, and I also feel noticeable urates. Not sure if that’s related. On the first baby I managed to pass them for her. Didn’t help. Then the snake passes away. Even after vet care. Are there any diseases I should be concerned about moving thru my collection? Or things I’m doing wrong that could cause this? I’ve done PCRs for my adults in the past but never popped anything. Any suggestions would be great. If your comment is take it to a vet please just spare me the time. Thank you.
Multiple regurges are not normal, what is your interval between feedings after a regurg? Limp body usually means a snake is incredibly ill already and very weak. Have you been providing any supportive care (rehydration, soaking, etc) when they start experiencing symptoms? Have you tested your sick animals for the likes of Crypto & IBD? What are your quarantine procedures for new snakes? Do you have any WC animals that could have brought something in? Any possibility of impaction?
Honestly if another passes, I’d have a necropsy and testing done, because something is very wrong if this is recurring. Yes, that would require a vet be involved, but it can give you a lot of information about what is happening internally that you can’t otherwise see on a live animal.
I feed once a week sometimes skipping a week. For a regurg I usually wait a full week. I’ve sanitized the set up, soaked them and provided electrolyte fluids, as well as taken the snakes to the vet for subcu and examination. I’ve tested my adults all for Crypto and have had them for a very long time with no pops. I have no WC snakes and they are in a room alone. My quarantine is usually 90 days in a big room outside my snake room. Haven’t purchased a snake in a while tho. All the snakes were eating and defecating and upon examination have non impaction but do have urates. The presence of which seem to be more related to what I now know is flaccid paresis which is paralysis of the extremities, in this case the lower half, and not the problem in itself. But what could be causing the paralysis is my issue. It’s usually a sign of renal failure. I have no idea why I’d have renal failure in my animals.
I’d consider re-testing anything that starts being symptomatic, just to be sure. Sounds like your supportive care is on point. What are your temps and heating in the enclosures? Just making sure we go over variables so anyone else who pops in here has as much information as possible. Have they been parasite screened? Have you noticed any sort of pattern or similarities with the animals that have fallen ill and passed? Any other symptoms besides regurges and the weakness? Any possible exposure to a toxin?
I have three racks with belly heating at about 90 and usually around a 79 on the cooler side. Room is usually 76-78. Only animals in the room and the only bugs I’ve ever seen there are fruit flies from my groceries.
I use regular coco block. Rodent pro rats.
Dawn, F10 and Chlorhexidine. Nothing else aside from Reptisafe.
I have never had a parasite issue but I did have stool done on one of my adults a while ago when she had a small mouth growth and that was clean. Never had an issue or any suggestion there may be one. At least until whatever this is now.
No pattern really before a regurg and then weakness and ultimately a limp lower half. The span of time seems a few weeks. All my snakes generally take every single meal and I never get a regurg. Almost never. So it’s a noticeable pattern.
Edit: I guess testing the animal that’s symptomatic is the right move I just have to figure out what to test for. Doesn’t sound like IBD and I’m crypto free I think.
Okay, this caught my attention. I won’t say this is the issue, since it could be something else, but small flies can be a very big problem if they’re not just fruit flies. There are other types of small flies, called Phorid flies, that can do some very, very horrific things. I suggest reading the following:
If the currently symptomatic animal ends up passing, a necropsy would let you know if the flies could be your issue. Otherwise there’s a few other bacteria and things you can test for, has there been any diarrhea or mucus in their feces?
@dickwaltzingmatildabruskin Have all the feeder rats come from the same package? Possible bad batch of rodents?
Absolutely no blood. Poop was good and the last urate was fine. That’s a crazy story tho. Holy smokes. What a horror show. I can’t be certain that’s not the case but I surely palpated the animal a few times to test for the urate and she hasn’t had anything like that come out. Thankfully. 
The surplus of flies was actually my fault. She regurged a rat while I was at work and K also had a potato go bad in a bag in the kitchen. The flies quickly became friends with her rat soup. But I’ve always had brushed with Drosophila as long as I’ve had any animals. Nothing like this tho. I hope that’s not the case.
I thought about this as well but I mix up the batches pretty quickly and they’re all rodent pro. I have many snakes the same size that get from the same bags. The three snakes were eating diff sized rats. I would hate for this to be true but rodent pro has been good as far as I know from most reviews. I would like to
Know if anyone has examples of this, tho.
Then it’s probably not the rodents. I have used rodent pro as well with no problems…Could very well be the flies. Has your vet not suggested any ideas? Or suggested a necropsy already since this is such a strange situation?
I suggest trying to control the fly population. Not sure if traps work for phorids the same as your typical fruit fly, but an apple cider vinegar trap (acv plus a drop or two of dish soap) might help get rid of the issue.
As for a bad feeder, that’s why I asked about the feces. Usually if it’s something like that they will regurg the feeder, then continue regurging fluid after. There’s also usually mucus in the stool and diarrhea. I actually experienced a loss that was suspected to be from a bad feeder back in June (corn snake in my case). You could consider testing for the main bacterial causes, I know RAL offers testing for them.
No the exotics vet I used to use closed so I have to travel far to a very busy emergency vet and it’s not great. I thought it was separate things being the first snake seemed injured. The second snake was very quick and random I almost didn’t even need to take him in. It’s very expensive there. I owe them like 12k in dog vet surgery bills trust me.
Apparently renal failure is a euthanasia level situation if that’s the cause so at this point I guess a necropsy is my way to go which will be fun to pay for. 
The flies are generally not around. I usually only have the flightless little bastards for my spiders and mantids but these other ones only popped up after the rat soup.
@dickwaltzingmatildabruskin I just want to say that I am very sorry for you that you are going through this ordeal. You seem to be doing everything correctly……
I surely hope you find answers quickly……
Damn sorry about your snake. Bad feeders is a nightmare but I guess you have the solace that it’s not a widespread illness or something in whatever else you have. I’ve heard renal failure can be vitamin difficiency or dehydration related I’m starting to blame myself for it.
I can sympathize with you on the vet/exotics vet bills trust me. I had 4 dogs with major surgeries at a specialty vet in one year at 4k a piece and then another 2 dogs with cancer/chemo for about 2 and a half years.
I completely understand where you are coming from even with the cost of a necropsy….
Don’t blame yourself yet because it could very well not be your fault.
I was incredibly lucky in that it was seemingly one off feeder towards the end of a bag, and I only lost one animal. It really sucked, it was one from the first batch I’d ever hatched. I understand the self-blame aspect, but I wouldn’t go that far. You’re working to find out what it is and a vitamin deficiency would be very weird when you follow the same parameters as so many other breeders. Dehydration is again, one of those things where if you’re providing enough water, the animal itself may be the problem.
I will say, you don’t necessarily need a professional necropsy unless you really want their testing and more accurate answers. You can, if you’re comfortable with it, just take a look yourself and see what you see. You can also pursue lab testing yourself, as previously mentioned, though I’m not sure if that’s cheaper in the long run. I don’t know if you were sent this resource when you asked about that first one that went missing, but here is the Association of Reptile & Amphibian Veterinarians “Find a Vet” search: Association of Reptile and Amphibian Veterinarians
Might have someone nearby you didn’t know about.
Appreciate all the help and the kind words.
I’m hoping he can bounce back a bit. I’ll do another PCR on him specifically and see what happens.
It absolutely can still be frozen rodents if they warm up in transit. I always temp my orders to make sure the box isn’t above 40 degrees because of it. Bad feeders are a nightmare, and even the best suppliers can’t control the delivery for every order. Heck, one of the most well know cornsnake breeders had a salmonella breakout with their feeder business over a decade ago.
@dickwaltzingmatildabruskin Paralysis is absolutely a symptom of IBD in ball pythons. As well as the regurging. I would definitely have your snakes tested for Arenavirus. Have any of your snakes also started to seem to have a headtilt, look offbalance or not able to turn over if you flip them?
Has there ever been an issue with mites in the collection? Or just the flies?
Are these snakes related at all? Is the adult that passed away the father of the younger ones for example?
I would try to control the fly population however you can. Bedding changes and spot cleaning often. I would also try and get a full necropsy done if another passes away. I would also consider a full parasite check, and possibly blood as well in case this is some kind of fungal or bacterial issue.
Having 1 animal get this after the first one that escaped is a coincidence. 3 snakes is a pattern and not something you want to see repeat again and again.
Edit: I generally give a snake 2 weeks to recover after a regurge before another attempt to feed. They can have issues digesting after because they haven’t produced enough acids yet or have esophageal damage from the acid regurge that needs a bit to heal.