Spider Gene?

May I ask what other morphs tend to wobble?

A few I’m aware of: HGW, champagne, spotnose (more the super). I’ve heard that chocolate/sable may, but I’m not sure. I’ve also heard that, like the spotnose, it’s more of a problem with the supers. HGW and champagne are also both double lethal. I’ve heard that champagne shouldn’t be crossed with any of the other wobbling morphs (champagne spider being lethal) and that there have also been problems, although less serious, with chocolate/sable spiders.

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I’ve got my heart set on a gorgeous pastel spotnose butter, although I don’t think it’s a super.
Thanks for letting me know though, I had no idea the wobble occurred in other specific morphs. Also, what does HGW stand for?

Hgw: hidden gene woman

I think the best generalization is stress seems to bring out the wobble more than anything. I’ve seen first hand how spider in a friend’s care showed no wobble, sold to someone else who I assume was less than qualified, snake came back a month or so later with a terrible wobble. Took a couple weeks in his care and it was back to showing no wobble. Just the most extreme example I’ve personally seen.

This doesn’t mean there’s a magic way for all spiders to not show wobble, but there are outside factors than can affect it. Doesn’t surprise me a rescue would have a lot of bad wobble examples.


I’ve worked with many Spiders! They are one of the best morphs in the market today. I worked for Kevin at NERD for 5 years obsessed with his huge collection of animals. I’ve seen the very FIRST bumblebees, albino spiders, honeybees, killer bees, Axanthic spiders, Axanthic bumblebees, Axanthic killerbees, coral glow spiders…etc oh and tons of normal spiders through the years!

This spider bashing is nothing more than high school drama. People who want attention and create drama. The gene is excellent! And if your not willing to invest in it than it’s completely yourloss!

Its really sad to see one of the morphs that BUILT this breeding market we have today get bashed so much. It’s unfair to the gene that has given us so much back.




I have 5 spiders and a couple hgw. I feed live, but house in short and simple tubs. They wobble to varying degrees, but not significantly and they eat without issues.


I personally believe that’s the wrong attitude to go about animal welfare but I’ll stay in my lane

Voluntarily redacting my previous comment because it would have been inflammatory lol

@herpjay IF it was a proven animal welfare issue I agree 100%. Just because they look cool would not be an ethical reason to breed them if it was true that a wobble caused them to have poor quality of life. Period.

However I do not believe that it is at ALL after doing hours and hours of research because when I first joined the hobby I saw a YouTube video that a well know herp-er (who shall remain nameless but I have ZERO respect for) made saying how awful it was. I was so alarmed I immediately just agreed but after digging and digging all I found was people talking about how bad it was…or the really gross ones showing animals they had intentionally stressed out to “prove their point.”

Then I watched extensive content by proponents of the gene where they showed ACTUAL NORMAL keeping and handling of the animals and it put my fears to rest.

For anyone considering this issue though if you feel in your conscience that you shouldn’t buy or breed spiders, DONT.

(Just also don’t be those people talking out their rears chastising others). :slight_smile: ily all. Gotta go freshen some water dishes and do some handling ttyl


Readers digest version is there is no ACTUAL evidence proving or even suggesting that a snake with a “wobble” can’t have a great life, but I support everyone using their best judgment in picking their animals and giving them proper care.

Just please don’t give certain [in my opinion animal abusers] clicks and buy their narrative when they are purposely stressing their snakes to “prove a point.”


Edit : lol I was replying to your first version of the post, but it’s changed now.

I tend to do my best to keep informed on both sides to an argument but I was mainly concerned because of my previous experience with spiders at the rescue. We always provided them with the best care and stress free environments but still exhibited quite severe wobbles. Although like someone had previously mentioned, I understand that it may be unfair to look at rescued spiders who likely came from a less than ideal home, outside of that I do admit that my experience with spiders was limited; hence this thread.

Unfortunately I can’t seem to find all too much on positive experiences with wobbles, probably due to the fact that in most cases people won’t mention anything unless it’s severe or negative. Or I’m not digging enough. Any sort of positive experiences and proof is always appreciated on my end.

Just as a disclaimer, I wasn’t at all jumping the gun on spider being fatal or unethical. I was simply asking people who had other experiences with them to mine.


Rescue makes a huge difference. A rescue pastel could some serious issues at that point. But fair enough I do not have that same experience myself I can’t say that I do lol


If you want to see more positive experiences with wobble, look up breeder channels on youtube. A lot of breeders have them. I know BHB, NERD, and some of the other big names have addressed the wobble issue specifically.


Olympus Reptiles as well is one I follow along with


Thanks, I’ll definitely be checking them out!

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I think our setups are the same. My spiders are absolutely wonderful, and the snake room is in a low traffic outbuilding completely self contained climate controlled. The spiders I have rarely wobble except at feeding time, when I’m working with them, they are actually more timid and curl up compared to my other morphs. I think the key is to pay attention to the animals and adjust care to meet their needs, they thrive.


You hit the nail on the head. I agree 100%. They just need a little extra TLC not much just a smudge more than my other morphs. I find my spiders to be much more confident than some of my other morphs. My blade stuff I hatched this year boy I must of dropped mean streak in their water cause sheesh they are snappy danger noodles. My spotnose stuff care free same with my pied stuff lol. My spiders are my golden child lol.


Personally I don’t breed spiders. Obviously there is an issue with the morph. We have no way of knowing if this condition causes the spiders any pain or discomfort, and they haven’t been around long enough for us to know if it shortens their lives.

Some people claim that their spiders are fine, but I’ve read more than one account of spiders who didn’t show the signs until later in life, and heard far too many stories about the severe cases. The videos I’ve seen are extremely sad. And I know that for every forum post or video, there are even more that people just keep quiet about it, because they’re embarassed or don’t want to tarnish their reputation.

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I personally am not a fan of the gene, but I have never been the type to bash people for what they enjoy. That and I just don’t like the way the patterns look most of the time. Just make sure that if you do get one, go to a breeder that produces them with love for the animals, and not just to make a killer profit off a cool looking snake. Unfortunately there do exist breeders that produce snakes with severe wobble without telling the buyer, as I have seen it happen. If you want a snake with a slightly similar look without any potential risk though, you could always get a pinstripe combo. I personally have a pastel banana champagne and he has zero wobble, and the breeder I got him from has champagnes that have never showed signs of wobble. I haven’t seen any champagne with a wobble, however, no matter how you try to breed the wobble out of spiders, it will always be there in times of stress or excitement.


@dmerrio This was a fantastic way of putting it, I appreciate seeing your perspective on the matter! I suppose part of me is intimidated by the prospect of starting with a “difficult” morph because I’m not entirely familiar with BPs yet.

@scosta56 I just picked up the most inquisitive and sweet spotnose, I couldn’t be happier with him! Is it true that they tend to wobble a little?

@ashleyraeanne & @spacecoastreptiles I’m personally not a fan either, but I do adore queenbee. Those have spider in them, don’t they?
If I were to begin breeding balls, I probably wouldn’t produce spiders either, just outta preference. But I don’t suppose I’d mind keeping one as a pet!