Hybrids snakes are like the spider morph in ball pythons. Half of the potential buyers won’t even go their. If your fine with that knock yourself out. It’s one off those things, once people get more into the hobby the less likely they are to buy hybrids or even mixed localities. When you breed “mutts” you end up selling them to casual keepers, but you may end up closing yourself off to more serious hobbiest.
I’ve just started breeding ball pythons somewhat seriously. I’ve chosen to keep spider and other wobbly morphs out of my collection because I know if I have some on my table at an expo, some people will just walk by. Others may buy my other morphs, but never my spiders. A few people will buy the spiders. I don’t have a problem with wobbly morphs. I just know a lot of people will never buy them. The same thing goes with “mutts” you’ll loose potential customers just by offering them up.
It really is each breeders choice. I think you should know the consequences.
I would definitely consider myself dully warned. I just look at the sale history on morph market and can see almoat 500 “other” sales with the closest second being 270 sales of jungles. So while i may miss a particular market, it is certainly not like they will not be bought at all. I definitely get what you are saying with spiders, because i myself chose not to get a jag even though they look cool, i dont know enough about it that i feel confident i could care for them properly, as well as knowing some breeders have no care for the wellfare of their animals they breed and have very shady practices regarding them (this is not a hit on all breeders that deal with them, a couple bad apples doesnt mean all breeders dont care). So in that sense i fully get what you guys mean. And i dont really think my target market was going to be breeders anyways. So i apppreciate the warning, and understand where its coming from, but my goal is creation more than profit, so i think itll be OK. Though i may have been a little (alot) too optimistic about how accepted innovation would be among the community. But time will tell, if it flops it flops, i just hope to make something im happy with!
Please keep in mind that a lot of folks who have never produced hybrids will offer their very biased opinion on what the market will be for them and tell you that only newbies will want anything to do with them. The truth is that they are like most reptiles in the hobby; hybrid keepers are niche in the market. Just because there aren’t as many people seeking them as something like a ball python or leopard gecko doesn’t mean that there isn’t still a fair sized market for them. There are some health issues that you’ll run into with certain hybrids, but there are plenty without any issues at all. I don’t recall the specifics, but it seems like the early generation carpondros had some longevity issues.
That is definitely something i will want to research. While i dont care about missing a particular market, the last thing i would want to do is intentionally (or through my own ignorance) produce an animal doomed to a low quality of life. Ill have to take a look, if you happen to remember which hybrids tend towards health issues please let me know
From what i can see i at least got very lucky in the variety i chose as darwin, papuan, coastal, and jungle are all winter breeders from what i can see, so there should at least be no issue there
Found this info while looking into possible health issues that could be relates to interbreeding of subspecies apparently some have mixed diamond with others for the purpose of making them hardier or more tolerant of the husbandry normally required for carpets. Was a cool read just figured id share incase anyone is silently following this to find their own answers! https://thesnakeboss.wordpress.com/2013/10/21/morelia-hybrids-part-1-intro-and-morelia-spilota-mixing/
I honestly cannot tell if you are being purposefully obtuse or intentionally ignorant at this point. You are very obviously new to the hobby and it is also painfully obvious that you have not bothered to seriously take the time to understand the corner of the hobby you are trying to break in to. I give you credit for your enthusiasm but you are flagrantly ignoring pitfalls that myself and other experience people in this hobby are warning you away from. I have been seriously in this hobby for two decades and, while I do not keep carpets (I do not count bredli as carpets), the majority of the people I interact with are carpet keepers. With years of conversations with those people under me, I am not just talking out my backside with all of the cautions I have put forth to you. You are perfectly free to pursue your own path, but at the rate you are going I cannot help but feel you charging headlong toward a wall
I am not ignoring you guys, i even stated that it is very likely you are correct on what is safest practice for being a successful breeder. But the “gamma” variation (jubgle+diamond) is proof alone that not all hybrids are treated like dumpster babies. The fact there are more “other” snakes sold on MM than any other pureblood also states to there being a market for it. Im not looking to run a business here, im looking to experiment and try and make something new, while not creating health problems for the snakes being worked with. Which, if we recall was the original point of the post. It was never a question of “will this sell” it was a question of “will it cause health issues”.
For a TLDR: I am no longer argueing that you guys dont have a point about the saleability and value towards breeders of haveing pure lineages. What i do doubt is that others wont sell. I see it all the time, its all over FB groups any time i see a Gamma pop up, and its all over MM any time an “other” sells.
All i am saying is if i can find them homes, and i can create something new without causeing genetic health problems, then thats good enough for me. Money is not an issue.
and also, i am not trying to be short, i am in fact very appreciative that you guys have gone so far out of your way to explain fhe pureist mindset as well as hurtles you know i will face in the way i plan to breed. They are things i will need to plan for and try to overcome, and in no way am i upset or miffed that you are pointing them out. I appreciate the vast amount of experience you shared in this topic, and hope that others reading who may be getting into breeding can use that advise for their own breeding plans to become a successful breeder
Found some more great information, and feel its important to have something for the purist side of the table in here since i recently posted a pro hybridization link. Great info about the snakes and localities for information directly pertaining to this topic skip to apx 35 minutes i to the video (i recognize there is a link promoting the individuals website for about 5 seconds in the video and have run posting this by staff first and recieved approval)
So just an update. I have decided that the most responsible thing i can do is start my breeding as pure as possible. My reasoning for this is my lack of experience, as well as the need for pure species to preserve breeding stock. As i get used to the breeding processes and increase my familiarization with the species i will likely start to make mixes to try and make something of my own, but i feel it is best to start pure and ease my way into it. That being said a couple i bought for breeding are not pure, but i have the info needed to advertise them properly as what they are. As for pure i believe i will start with papuan and work with axanthic and granite, hopefully ending up with the ability to make axanthic granites by the end of the decade (due to what my stock is, as well as offspring grow time and probabilities)
I know i havent posted in a while, but figured id share for those who had helped with helping me understand the nuances of breeding.
So just an update on this, i have made the decision not to breed any of my mixed blood carpets. I had a very long conversation with Nick Mutton and he made alot of valid points, he didnt dismiss the potential benefits of mixed breeding, but one of the best points he made against it, is that no matter how well i do, no matter how honest i am, and how much i document my mixes, somebody somewhere will eventually get a hold of one of my snakes, and represent it as something it is not, and that will create a nightmare for those trying to breed pure.
It sucks having to replace the mixes that i bought, but ultimately it will make it harder to misrepresent the animals i produce, and provide 1 more source for pure breeds. So my count of breedables is now down to 1 granite papuan female (from Conviction reptiles, Nick said this one is safe as he has worked with them before, and what they say is what you get) as well as 1 palmertson locality jungle (w/ dorsal striping) male. (Inland reptiles), and now have 1 het axanthic coastal otw (inland reptiles), and 1 axanthic 66% granite male papuan (inland reptiles). Im hoping the 66% proves out and makes my goals come a bit quicker, however, at worst im guaranteed to produce double het ax granites that are pure papuan from the mix if the het isnt there.
Thanks for all of your early advice and i appologize for my stubborness. All i will need now is 1 female coastal ax or het ax, and 1 femal palmertson jungle w/ dorsal stripe and ill have all my pairs for breeding pure.
The mixed snakes i will be either keeping as pets or rehoming with people i know who will keep them as pets. None are being sold, as if others breed them, its the same as if i had done it in my eyes.
Lurked the thread, but I’m glad you’ve heeded others’ advice here. It can be tough when you’ve put in effort into one direction and have to go in another
It does suck, but at the same time, i definitely learned alot about care, husbandry, feeding habits, etc from the snakes i have. So its not like i got absolutely nothing out of it. Experience counts for something. But it is never fun spending money on something you dont use.
I can still see theres plenty market for hybrids, but moneys not my only reason for doing this, id rather not fluff it up for everyone.
