Hello everybody I have been using kiln dried pine for my feeder rodents, is this an okay bedding/substrate or are their better options?
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I wouldn’t use pine as the fumes it releases can actually kill rodents (I’ve had it happen, learned the hard way) and it generally irritates rodents as you can do a bit of research on it since I don’t have the links on hand. Absolute cheapest stuff and honestly better than the more expensive stuff is just aspen shavings, it’s like 10 bucks for 150 packed liters at my local Walmart and it works great for my pet mice. I keep my rats in ferret nation cages so I haven’t had experience with that but I’m going to get breeder rodents tomorrow so I’ll let you know about that. Personally my setup is a 30 gallon bin with a pair of rats in it or 3 female mice one male mouse. I have and extra tub per two pairs of rats for babies and an extra tub per two colonies of mice for babies and I cut out the sides and replace it with thick but small holes wire. Then I do the aspen bedding at about 4-6 inches and I give a hide in each corner, paper cardboard tubes and popsicle stick bridges and houses, some chewy sticks and other spread out treats and a wheel (if they use it) since I believe that quality of life shouldn’t be sacrificed even when breeding rodents. I have nothing against “worse” setups but I know most people do it that way and they’re just meant to be food so you know, it’s not a cherished pet. I just like to make sure all my food is honored in life which is my extra five miles way of doing it which can be time and space consuming so it’s for a select few in my opinion but that’s how I do it
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Kiln dried pine is a good bedding for feeder rodents. You’ll find drastic quality differences from brand to brand so If possible I’d try to find a local feeder producer and ask if they have a preferred local brand.
I like using saratoga mini flakes.
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There is some debate about kiln-dried pine being safe bedding for rats and other rodents (I used to keep rats as pets, and currently have a chinchilla, and the same debate exists for chins). Most who have used it haven’t had any issues, but some have experienced respiratory issues in their rats/rodents and blame the pine shavings. So my takeaway was that it’s probably fine, but possibly not 100% risk-free.
Aspen shavings are, as far as I know, universally considered safe. I always recommend aspen over kiln-dried pine, just on the philosophy that there’s no reason to take the risk with pine when there is a safer alternative that’s inexpensive and readily available. Given that rats have relatively sensitive respiratory systems, and that things like cedar and “raw” pine are known to definitely be harmful to them, it certainly seems possible that there could still be some risk with kiln-dried pine, even though that risk seems fairly minimal. Aspen has just always seemed like a better choice to me, but as with most things, your mileage may vary.
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I definitely like using aspen, when it’s available for a reasonable price. I unfortunately can’t get it locally for anywhere reasonable. Going to have the Mercantile where I order my Mazuri rodent chow look into potentially ordering it for me (would like to get it for my neonate boa setups)
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I’ll definitely look into aspen! But are you saying only 4 feeder rats per tub? That’s a lot of tubs for the amount snakes I need to feed.
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I use cb70 tub equivalent for my racks and keep 1.3 up to 1.5 breeding groups in them.
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What does 1.5 breeder groups mean? 1 males to 5 females? I’m new to this so just curious
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Yes, first number is male, second is female.
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I use the xl lab rat breeder tubs from reptile basics (the ones with the wire top/built in feeding and watering areas) and do 1 male to 2 females or keep 3 females in a tub permanently and rotate the male every 2 weeks. You can get away with more in the bigger breeder tub style, but the more rats the more frequently you have to clean. Also when I’ve done more females in my size bins some steal or kill the others babies occasionally. Also I use softwood horse bedding with no issues. Just make sure to stay away from cedar and have plenty of ventilation.
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When I first started breeding feeder rats a couple years ago I too was worried about pine after hearing warnings. Where I am at aspen is around 1.5 - 2x the price of pine shavings. I payed it and used it initially.
After that I saw some big rodent breeders using pine pellets and shavings from tractor supply and since I had one near me I figured I’d try it since it was so much cheaper. Been using it since with no issues whatsoever. I think aspen is a good idea when you are breeding a smaller number of rodents but once things expand you’re likely going to want to find a more price efficient option.
I also use the XL rat breeder tubs from reptile basics but I’ll do anywhere from 1.3 to 1.5 typically. I use them purely as breeder tubs. Once the moms are pregnant they go into the smaller rat tubs from reptile basics. This style of breeding is known as “maternity breeding”. The benefit is that A. mom’s get to raise their babies alone without other females potentially killing them and B. the ability to determine exactly how many babies each mom is having. As mom’s age their production decreases and at some point they need to be culled and replaced. Maternity breeding makes that all more efficient.
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I was gonna say, but the above beat me to it- I know of people who buy the bulk bales of minichip aspen sold for horses, and use it for their reptiles and rodents alike. This may save a good deal of money given how often you change rodent bedding.
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We also use the xl tubs with up to 1.4 in each. Then move the soon to be mother in a breeding tub (smaller tub). Once we have several mother’s, we put 2 to 3 mother’s with babies in an xl tub. Then we sort them out as the babies get bigger. We use pine from tractor supply and also horse bedding pallets. We have not had any issues with using pine. As others have started, the more you have in a tub, the more often you have to clean it. 2 in a tub max 6 days for cleaning, more in a tub 3 to 4 days.
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I should explain, the horse bedding helps in cleaning and also helps to reduce oder. We scoop some out using both hands and spread it out, per bin. For soon to be mother’s or just given birth, we don’t use the pellets. We have found it really doesn’t help as it is only one rat in the bin.
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Just want to mention that I was taught in veterinary school that pine products should not be used as rodent bedding. Kiln-dried vs. not was not discussed.
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Theoretically, the process of kiln-drying pine removes all the harmful sap and oils that cause problems. That’s the whole point of kiln-drying it, to remove all the sticky sap so you’re left with usable lumber (raw pine will “weep” sap, making it rather impractical in most contexts).
Generally speaking, kiln-dried pine does seem pretty safe, as lots of people use it for their rodents (whether feeders or pets) with no issues. I honestly don’t even have any actual proof it’s ever caused issues, just anecdotes from individuals who have encountered health issues (usually respiratory problems) in their animals while using it and were convinced the pine was the cause (in some cases, switching to aspen seemed to improve the situation). Now, whether it was a function of them having an unusually sensitive animal(s), getting a “bad batch” of pine shavings that were not sufficiently dried, or them just blaming the pine when the pine actually had nothing to do with it at all, I honestly can’t say. 
I’ve always avoided using it as an actual bedding just to err on the side of caution.
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