Hello to all of you and thanks for reading, so I just wanted to get your guys opinion on a project I’ve wanted to get into for awhile. What do all of you think regarding super cinnys and super black pastels? Which has the least amount of defects? Is it a project worth getting into? What has your experience been if you have worked with either of these genes? Thank you for any knowledge/input you may have!
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I had terrible luck with defects with my grey matter project. Only like ended up hatching one super black pastel. I paired for super cinny s super blacks and eight balls all the same bad results. I’m not sure I will ever try these again. I think mahogany is the way to go for an all black snake if that’s what your looking for. But others have success with these pairings. I hatched over a 100 ball pythons this year and these were my only ones that had any issues.
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Super Cinny and Super Black Pastel and combos have really high risk of birth defect, hence why you do not see many on the market.
Most people I know that have work with that project have simply gave up now if you don’t go for Supers you can still make some amazing animals.
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Agree they can also be paired with Huffman hra and green pastel which are on the same allele and als with both cinny and black pastel. You can make some amazing combos with that as well.
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I’ve been breeding 8-Balls (Cinnamon x Black Pastel) for a few years and have only had 1 kinked hatchling that died in the egg. All the others have been fine. However, as you can see by the previous posts, that’s not always the case. I think I just got lucky with the lines I have.
If I were to start again, I’d go for GHI/Cinnamon/BP Sumas instead. Just to avoid any possible issues, and they are jet black.
Pictured is a Bamboo 8-Ball and an 8-Ball.
Good luck! 
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Wow nice animals! Im really liking the 8 ball idea!
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I stay away from 8ball super and ALS combos. They are ugly as adults and the risk of kinking is not something I want to deal with. I have plenty of BP and cinny to work with, I just keep them from meeting up.
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So what would you say my best bet is to make a all black snake?
So would you say to just go with a mahogany? I just wanna know how I can produce a all black snake with little to no defects.
Mahogany is a way to make a black snake with a wicked stripe that runs down the middle. The super form of mahogany is a Suma. If you wanna go even darker add in some cinnamon to the suma jet black and no defects.
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Ok thanks for the response! I’m definitely gonna look into that! Sumas are extremely nice so I can only imagine how nice they are with cinnamon
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Look up “Ace Of Spades” ball python. This is the Super Mahogany Cinnamon. One guy recently made one with Pied as well. In my opinion, these will be much healthier animals than Super Cinnamons or Super Blacks. Seems like the black is even darker on them too.
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The name seems very fitting! A cool name for a cool morph
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The people who complain about birth defects usually breed pythons that are related. Mother to son makes the bloodline stronger other than that incest is a big no no!
The defects present in super cinnamon/super black pastel aren’t due to inbreeding, it’s simply due to the super forms of these morphs causing some type of developmental defect and has been seen in pairings of unrelated parents.
Ah….no. That’s not really how it works. Inbreeding is inbreeding, and sometimes it has a negative health effect on the animal sometimes it doesn’t. A mother to son, father to daughter or brother to sister pairing are all going to produce offspring with a 25% coefficient of inbreeding.
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I think it was mentioned in passing above but maybe not widely known back then but look up the abyss (super mahogany GHI). Jet black snake. I suppose adding one copy (and only one) of either cinnamon or black pastel might improve even more. About half my clutches this year will be starters for an abyss project.
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Mother to son is not different than father to daughter or brother to sister. Thinking that one kind of inbreeding makes a bloodline stronger while other kinds of inbreeding are detrimental is a cognitive disconnect. It is all inbreeding and it is all detrimental in the long run
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