So my introduction to feeder rats was me getting a few ans a week later having 3 surprise litters. They went amazing other then one female being hell bent to kill my hand. But she was a fantasic care giver.
This time the litters were planned and I should have 2 more due today or tomorrow. I was prepping pinkies for a snake we plan to get here soon. Ideally I wanted to wait for the pinkies to have a feeding or two before taking them…
But if the two never nurse or tend to the babies would it be better to cull the whole litter now? Neither mom bothered cleaning them much and they were just scattered about the tub. None have milk bands so I know for sure neither have nursed.
This is their first litter but they came from my starting females who were amazing parents.
On another note… if its better to cull the litter now. How do I go about cleaning the pinkies? Not something I thought of when I had this planned out.
Those are some really unfortunate circumstances to start off on rat breeding
So sorry that this has happened…
Are the female rats housed together or are they in seperate containers? Female rats typically do better raising litters by themselves versus being in a group with other females while nursing… at least in my experience breeding rats.
I’ve had a few terrible first time moms, and a few great ones. But usually after their first litter the “terrible” ones get the hang of caring for their young and don’t have any further issues.
As for the female thats hell bent on killing your hand, it won’t get better… I had a female like that who would attack me just opening the container to check on her litter and eventually put a very deep hole in my hand that I still have a scar from 2 years later. I had to cull her unfortunately as she was becoming a risk that outweighed the benefit of being a breeder.
If this litter is fresh, like a day or two old I’d give them some time to figure things out. If its more than that and the babies are becoming emaciated it might be the more humane thing to do and cull them before they suffer more.
Let the females have another litter or two and if this keeps happening I’d consider getting different breeder females.
If the litter size isn’t too large on a better caretaking mom you can try and offer them the babies too. Just rub them in some of her litter so they smell more familiar. Rats are usually pretty great as far as taking in adoptions.
I had the typical cannibal hamster mom and we gave the last four pinkies to a ratty mom to raise. She did her best. They were fairly social hamsters for the most part, but still very much hamster attitudes. Hahah
They are together. I have them and the two others that should be due today or tomorrow in the same bin. One is the original mother of some of them. I actually culled the other femaleok who sadly was the better parent but… 6 times of being bitten and the last nearly had me going to the doctor for a check up on it… I gave her a while to adjust and tried treats and everything. But I have to clean and handle these guys so it wasn’t worth the risk. I have a scar on my index finger that months after it still painful. So I think it was a good call.
The pups were just born within the last hour. Ive been expecting it. But I wasnt expecting two at the exact same time and for it to look like someone threw a hand grenade in there as there were pups literally eveywhere.
I have other females ans took notes of these two. If they don’t tend to the litters next time, they are for sure off the breeding list. I hope some of theae make it. Sadly its my pretty light grey female who I wanted babies from the most thats ignoring them. (Naturally… )
Over all, I’m fine if I have to cull. I was planning on some being feeders anyway. But I was going to try to leave a few for the sake of the moms.
Saldy these two are the only two with pups at the moment. I have 2 more that should be due today or tomorrow… (im small scale so I only breed to keep feeders for my collection).
I hope one of them gives birth today and takes over or maybe kick starts the other two.
Also … yeah thats typical hamster. ill have to keep that in mind though… Ive heard some mice are awful parents. Wonder if a rat would adopt them too.
If it’s only been an hour, some moms just need a break to kinda reset themselves after labor. I’ve seen some messy tubs.
If in a couple hours she still isn’t pulling them together maybe offer some toilet paper to nest with and gently shuffle the babies into it later until the other moms drop. Hopefully they’ll realize the babies need care tho
Oh yeah you should definitely give them some time before considering doing anything.
If they are first time moms they’ll need a bit of time, get them in seperate containers with the babies split into 2 litters and let them rest in a calm environment. If you have anything like paper towel let them have some to rip up into nesting material
Hope so. Like i said I tried to prep and research. But my first litters were so easy and the mothers took to it like nothing. Even tolerated me hovering as I was not ready for a sudden collection of 27 babies haha… but it was fun to watch.
I just know most mammals need milk pretty often and early so I got conflicting google answers in trying to find out.
Yeah I had just out a bunch of paper towel and that bedding or nesting stuff (i think its soft paper that they sell over priced in stores… haha).
I had planned to where id have things set up and two mothers per tub. But… medical emergency with my mother had me out of state a few days. I got back home the other night and was starting to prep things today…
Like I said I have a few mommas that would scatter litters in the beginning but they got the hang of things fairly quick and had the litters well taken care of from then on.
Your girls might just be a bit stressed from the labor process and then having a bunch of little ones to tend to. It might take them a bit to get it together but if all goes well they should be readily tending to the pinkies by tomorrow.
How old are these mommas? I tend to notice that younger first time moms have it a bit harder figuring out what they need to do.
They are just shy of a year old. I was trying to prevent any young moms like my starting ones. Cause one of my first ones was so small looking still it worried me.
If mom is scattering her pups or not nesting them together, I would assume stress. Is your dog or cat present when you work with them? How about your bull? Where is he? Rat mothers are usually, not always, attentive unless someone/something is disturbing them. Could be an individual personality. Could be she/they were pulled from their own mother too soon. Oddly enough, she could be worried about a baby thief. They can count and may neglect the others if one or more go missing. It happens.
Too much light. Too much noise. Too much disturbance. Something doesn’t smell right. Too warm in the room. No food security is a thing with rats too. Not enough bedding to hide the pups when she goes for food or drink.
Rats are highly social and intelligent which makes them more prone to stresses.
Of course, could be a new mom thing. Hopefully.
As for adoption, many females are very good at it. They will sometimes take another rats entire brood. I had an older female that nursed an ermine pup once. ( children are so helpful).
Keep an eye on them but keep the disturbance to a minimum for a couple days.
Regarding overly protective or bitey females remember- like begets like and she may end up raising pups with her attitude. I have found that in the long run it’s best to promote calmer individuals as it will lead to more calmer individuals. And less perforated fingers. I had a female that screamed all the time, was a great mom, raised a bunch of screaming offspring. Not ideal.
May seem a bit odd needing to pay this much attention to an animal that has conquered the planet but they are complex, intelligent, social creatures.
Hopefully it’s a new mom thing and she will figure it all out.
But if not, take a look at how they’re being kept.
They are in a room.to where the dogs cant be near them. There can be cats but they are in the top unit of a critter nation i have covered with plenty of hides. And the nursing bins i made are covered and also have hides in them as well. Oh the cats arent oresent at all when i have their stuff open. I dont need that stress as a just in case precaution. The bulls i pulled out and put back to their own enclosure after a week. So they havent been present for a bit. Eveything ia cleaned so it shouldnt be that it smells loke the males either.
I wouldn’t think baby theft is a worry. I didnt take any of the babies from the first litter that her mom had. This was the first planned litter ans even then i had it worked out to only take some so they dodnt go into total shock from their whole litter going missing (also why i tried to line up multipe litters at once. Maybe itd be less stressful on them all).
She was one of the pups from the mother i culled for biting. They both were actually i think. But theor mom as mean as she was… was the most attentive parent of the two i started with.
I wouldn’t think it was stress. Like i said i give hides, enrichment, they havent been in bins or even had or seen babies taken in their lives. They are for the most part friendly and cpme right up to being handled.
Sadly the two never did take care of the pups and most passed away during the night. There were 5 alive still and i gave them oit between the two who had their pups today to see if they could make it or not. They happily took them and started cleaning and stimulating them. So we’ll see.
Even with the new babies the two are attentive right away, the other two just dont seem interested at all. The new litters are being treated as i expected and experienced my first go where the moms hovered and cleaned and looked over everything.
Oh another note… is it safe to freeze the pups who didnt make it? They arent stiff yet but there was 26 of them that didnt make it and it feels like a waste (i wish i had gotten up sooner. I could have made the call to freeze them at that time).
Kind of a hhmmmm on feeding to snakes. I wouldn’t risk it. Monitor lizards, however, all in. They can literally eat the rotten carcass of anything and walk away happy.
When in doubt- chuck them out.
I still saved the babies, it felt like a waste to bury them. So Ive been feeding them off to my chickens. If I felt like I could stomach it I’d offer one to my dairy cow isopods. I don’t think I’m ready for that experience yet.
ill have to keep that in mind though… Ive heard some mice are awful parents. Wonder if a rat would adopt them too.