Using Friends and family with a founding member

A founding memeber with 99 (100% positive in 12 months) is asking me to use F&F which normally I would say no but I mean its a legit breeder on here. Dont want to put the name out there but I doubt they wouild be scamming and losing their account here but I dont know

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It is down to you to do your research (which it seems you have done) and also to understand that paying through this method leaves you near hopeless in a bad situation.

I would always recommend paying the extra “goods and services” fees so that you have some form of insurance but some sellers have been burnt by this in the past and may be hesitant if it is a huge potential loss.

Now saying that, 99 possitive reviews speaks for itself and I personally wouldn’t hesitate.


Take it for what it is, as someone who owns multiple businesses, that suggests to me that they are not paying taxes on their sales (and if so are not actually operating a business). You have zero legal protection in that transaction from PayPal and if they aren’t a registered business, you have no other protection beyond that.

The quantity of feedback you’re mentioning suggests to me that this person sells a high volume of snakes on here. Anyone moving that volume of snakes should not be asking favors of customers. For a business Pay Pal fees are a direct write-off, no excuse skirting around them.

This tickles an issue that really irritates me. Every snake breeder has a ‘business’ name, but only a tiny percentage of us actually have a registered business or pay taxes in any way. I sell less than 100 ball pythons each year, and I still go out of my way to keep records and pay taxes on it. Granted due to my businesses I’m more likely than average to get audited on occasion, so that extra $11-12k from my snakes this year would likely get noticed anyway. The last thing you want is the IRS to notice you’ve been pulling in $20k/year through PayPal FF. If they do, you can expect to pay a tax rate around 30% of total sales, if you can’t afford that, no problem they have payment plans with horrible interest rates.


I don’t think this has to do with avoiding taxes. As a seller my priority would probably be not getting my animal stolen from me. IMO someone who has cultivated a good reputation has earned the right to protect themselves like this, after all if they renege on their agreement it’s their reputation on the line.

I think you’ve misunderstood the issue at hand. When you use PayPal friends and family, PayPal does not protect your transaction. Why would they extend protection (which costs them money) to sales that they don’t make any money on? Further, as a business, you’re always looking for more write-offs. PayPal fees are a write off. Put simply, as a business, the paypal fee comes off your tax bill at the end of the year so you want to pay it.

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Not to mention using PayPal FF for selling things is against their TOS. The sellers do it to avoid the tax in most cases (since many will ask you to pay the fee if you don’t use FF). It doesn’t matter if they want to protect themselves, do it in a way that doesn’t put others at risk of getting screwed over and doesn’t also break the rules of PayPal. All it takes is one person to report em for that (and PayPal to look into it), then they face a huge lawsuit and being banned from PayPal.


Perhaps I’m misunderstanding this then. I’ve been under the impression that along with avoiding fees and taxes many breeders do friends and families to cover themselves from buyer’s disputes. I’ll have to look deeper into the subject once I eventually start using these services as a seller.

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I offered to pay using goods and services and they said no. Once again this is good size breeder yet he wouldnt let me buy it.

luckily a local breeder agreed to give a better price and ill be picking up my new BEL tomorrow

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I own two insulation companies. Once a customer signs one my contracts I’m expected to install the project with only a 10% or $1000 deposit, whichever is less, payment in full is due upon completion or by designated phase. If that customer cannot pay, my contract protects me in court/arbitration. I have no way of even knowing the customer has $$$ in the bank, that’s the accepted risk of contracting/doing business in general. However my contract makes it clear that I’ve placed a mechanical lien of the title of their home, should they decide not pay me. On any given contract I’ve installed several thousand dollars of material and paid the labor and overhead costs associated with it, without having any proof I’ll get paid (beyond the legal protection of my contract). If there was no risk in business it would just be called ‘getting money’ lol.

If a breeder wants to avoid paypal disputes, a simple contract will do that. IF your business is registered with the Secretary of State for the state it resides in and has a local business license if within a city limit, that is. Without a legal business entity, whether or not a contract is enforced is often up to the arbitrator, commissioner, or judge presiding the case.

PayPal also has a decent arbitration policy and requires proof before enforcing for either side in a dispute so I have a feeling that fear is over-blown in the hobby.

PayPal also offers full service Point of Sale technology for businesses similar to Square and Clover, and there is no reason for a business using their service not to have an account that auto transfers daily sales to your business bank account.


Deal didnt work out and Im still without a BEL

Depending what you need the BEL for, there’s a line in the reptile hobby

If you can’t buy it, make it

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I will never make one. Never my goal, I know my place.

Im the guy that buys what you guys make. Someone needs to buy them right.


Earlier this year I found the exact snake I was looking for from a breeder with many (100%) positive reviews. Could be the same breeder actually… He would only take PayPal friends and family and I did not hesitate to walk away.
I’m buying a snake… from a stranger… over the internet. I think its important to quickly back away from a deal that doesn’t seem right.

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I wouldn’t use friends and family for anyone, except… friends and family.
The only time I’ve used it is when I’m purchasing animals at an expo, and even then it’s only if I have a positive feel for the breeder and/or have done business with them before.

I’m sure you’ll find the perfect BEL from a seller that doesn’t make you take a big risk with your purchase.

I’d personally never even ask my customers to pay through friends and family. Even though, sure, paying the fees kind of sucks at a gut level. But the PayPal fees are just (another) one of the costs of doing business over the internet with good customer care.

Sometimes customers ask which method to go thru and my answer is always: “The PayPal for purchases gives you some additional protections on the purchase, and I just pay a small fee. The vast majority of my customers pay this way. Although I’ll accept whichever one you prefer.”


I even offered to pay the difference but whatever im over it now.

I might just spend a couple hundred more and get a cherry bomb super lesser albino when one becomes availble.

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It will be worth the wait regardless of what morph you get. A transaction should not have been that much of a hassle for you. It’s a red flag.