W & Y, Lemon Frost, and/or NDBE- Anybody have one?

W & Y, Lemon Frost, and NDBE are leopard gecko morphs that are acknowledged to have associated health risks. I’m not posting to debate ethics about any of them (or Enigmas- they’re better understood already)- not interested in drama. Rather, I would really love to hear peoples’ personal experiences with them. Keeping or breeding- I am interested from an intellectual perspective. I would also love to see pictures!

For example, if you have a Lemon Frost- has it developed tumors? How old is it? Have you noticed any variance in terms of tumor development with the addition of pigment-reducing morphs, like Mack Snow or an Albino strain? How about with regards to sex/breeding status? Has anyone ever seen, in person, a Super Lemon Frost? What did it look like, what was its behavior?

With W & Y, I’d like to hear details about the neuro signs displayed, if any. Are they similar to the signs of Enigma Syndrome, or distinctly different? If anyone has ever handled an animal that is both Enigma and W &Y, were there any unusual characteristics noted?

With NDBE I’m interested in hearing about effects on fertility, and ocular anatomy. Has anyone seen (in person, first hand) an NDBE that does not have deformed eyes or eyelids? (That reminds me- one of these days I need to make a post about BAE/Marble Eyes/Eclipse/NDBE discussion…)

Maybe the best way to phrase it, just in general, is that I’m looking for health data from others that have reliable, first-hand experience with these potentially deleterious morphs. I want to hear stories from owners of these animals, so I can better understand the associated health conditions. Any obviously abnormal anatomy, behavior, etc. Maybe it’s the dvm in me, but I’m incredibly curious.


I have a white and yellow leopard gecko that I got and she shows absolutely no effects at all, she behaves and looks just like any other leopard gecko.


Very interesting! I’ve never seen a W & Y in person, nor heard many details about them. It makes me curious as to what changes can occur, and why expression is variable! Meaning, if it’s something related to the cerebellum, cranial nerves, or inner ear, etc., and how development is affected.

Also makes me wonder how Enigma, W & Y, and Vermillon (European morph) compare in terms of potential effects, how they could interact, and their cause. I have a Stealth (morph with Enigma in), and he has the neuro signs I’ve read as being typical of Enigma Syndrome. Anybody with experience know how the origins and/or symptoms differ between these three morphs?

Thanks for sharing! I love learning about this sort of thing! :+1:


I have had wy for 5 years, I never even heard about the wy debate until I read a paragraph about it https://www.geckoboa.com/leopard-gecko-genetics.html


I have several White and Yellow Leopards. Of my adults, one was purchased and arrived showing pretty sever W/Y Syndrome. I’m told he showed no signs prior to shipping. He was pretty bad for 3 or 4 months but slowly stabilized. He would flip over and was very very off. Similar to Enigma syndrome. Now, he’s still a little wonky and “special” but someone not real familiar with Leopard Geckos might not even notice it. I bred him to 1 female for myself. Of the 6 fertile eggs I got from the young female, 2 came out white and yellow. I’ve kept them for myself and so far, they seem normal as any other gecko. Although 1 has been a picky slower grower… but with enough babies in a season, I’d say it’s not uncommon to see 1 or two of those no matter the morph. Eventually, I’ll probably pet out the 2 white and yellow offspring just because of their dad. However, I may keep 1 of the non white and yellow offspring for breeding. Still watching them mature.

Aside from that, I’ve got 5 or 6 other W/Y breeders I’ve had shipped to me. All 100% normal upon arrival. I had about a dozen or so W/Y babies this year from them. All have remained 100% normal.

Aside from the 1 adult who showed up really wonky, I haven’t seen anything to make me avoid breeding W/Y geckos! They are some of my favorites!


About 10 years ago I purchased a White and Yellow Enigma Tangerine Tornado from TUG. When I received her she was as healthy and active as you would expect when buying a gecko from a breeder with a solid reputation. However, once she reached just over 1 year old and I bred her for the first time something changed. She started “Star Gazing” randomly, not enough to affect her well being but that’s how it started. Within 6 months she would fall over, spin in circles almost every time she was awake, and lost all interest in food. She didn’t survive the neurological problems that come with either the W&Y gene or the Enigma gene. Personally, I think it was the Enigma gene as I have own a couple of W&Y’s and have never had any ill effects except when combined with Enigma. I also believe, based on her color and pattern, she had the super form of Enigma (Both Alleles) which gave her a sever form of the neurological problems. I have often wondered if Enigma doesn’t effect a leo unless they have both copies of the Enigma genes but I haven’t had the heart to test breed that gene since I lost her.


i have both a W&Y and a inferno W&Y and both show zero signs of w&y syndrome. both are proven as well. waiting on hatchlings to hatch to judge them


She couldn’t have had two copies of the Enigma gene. It is double lethal.