Where are the Hybrids?

sweetserpents · February 28, 2020, 4:37am

Why are there so few hybrids? it seems like burmballs would be highly sought after in the pet trade, yet I’ve only ever seen one from Bob Clark. I’ve not heard of any health issues associated with the few hybrids I’ve seen. Please key in with any info you have and your opinions on hybrids

nathan_e · February 28, 2020, 6:43am

Here’s a post I made where we discussed how ethical it was. Interesting views and conversations

trnreptiles · February 28, 2020, 7:46am

I’d like to try for some blood x ball in the future. Likely after I’ve produced a few pure blood python clutches, so I have that knowledge and experience.

I’m really curious to see how different morphs interact within the hybrid, like for example the banana/coral glow morph.

I think the reason hybrids aren’t very mainstream is because not very many people produce them, not to mention how controversial it is for some people.

nathan_e · February 28, 2020, 7:47am

There is a vid of a blood x coral glow bp on YouTube. I’ll try to link it here if you are interested

trnreptiles · February 28, 2020, 7:59am

I found the video, that’s definitely really cool! It’d still be fun to experiment with different morphs and see what comes of it

t_h_wyman · February 28, 2020, 1:41pm

Please link, I would be interested in seeing this

nathan_e · February 28, 2020, 2:18pm

Here is the vid. I confused it by accident. Its actually a Sumatran x coral glow ball hybrid. Not a blood x coral glow hybrid

I also thought you’d he interested in this vid. The same guy that created the CG hybrid does a comparison vid of all his bp hybrids. I’m curious what you think about it, personally I think its pretty cool.

eaglereptiles · February 28, 2020, 2:57pm

@t_h_wyman a quick question.
I won’t use coral Glow/banana as a example to save the sex ratio mess.

Say we crossed a Blood Python to Enchi Ball Python and produced a Enchi Hybrid, could that be bred back to a Blood Python to produce a (non hybrid) Enchi Blood Python or would the Enchi gene be directly related to the Ball Python parts?

Could this be used to basically transfer morphs over to the Blood Python world and vice versa?

nathan_e · February 28, 2020, 6:06pm

They did this for retic morphs because the dwarfs did not have many if any morphs within their bloodline at all. So some breeders cross bred the dwarfs with regular retics to transfer the genes but it will always carry a percentage of genes from the cross. So I dont think there will be a “pure” enchi blood or Sumatran python

trnreptiles · February 28, 2020, 7:30pm

I think it’d end up being 25% ball python and 75% blood python, or something like that. But yes, it’d still have ball python blood in it regardless.

As you continue to breed back into the blood python line, the amount of ball python in the mix would become less and less, so… I suppose it could technically work as a long-term project?

nathan_e · February 28, 2020, 7:52pm

But here’s the thing, just like how the wobble issue binds to the spider gene then that means you cant remove 100% of the wobble from a spider. Just like for a ball python gene. You couldn’t take away 100% of the ball python gene even if you tried to breed out bp blood.

westridge · February 28, 2020, 9:48pm

No matter how many times you backcross a hybrid, it is still a hybrid. Even if it is 98%.

Another reason you don’t see as many hybrids is because they are not that simple to produce. It’s not as easy as putting two different species together and hoping something happens. You often have to take measures to “trick” two very different animals into breeding. The more different they are the harder it is. Also, hybridizations do not usually produce as many fertile eggs.

nathan_e · February 28, 2020, 10:01pm

I’m curious how you’d trick them into breeding. What tricks have you heard of that make them breed?

trnreptiles · February 28, 2020, 10:37pm

I know they would always be a hybrid, I never said the ball python blood could be bred out of it

And yeah, it is true that not many are produced due to the difficulty in doing so.

I do know one method is using sheds of a female from the same species as your male and placing them in the enclosure of the female of the different species… sort of a scent thing lol

westridge · February 28, 2020, 11:54pm

Sheds, rubbing dirty bedding on them, those are two that I have heard

t_h_wyman · February 29, 2020, 1:59am

While it is theoretically possible to breed all the ball genetics out but to do so requires a statistically unlikely occurrence of genetic segregation events. So, as the folks above have noted, no, in all practical terms, no, you can never totally get the ball genetics out. And this is absolutely the case as long as that mutation is in there.

This technique of crossing to a different species to introduce a mutation in and then backcrossing to make “pure” lineage has been widely used in the colubrid side of the hobby as a number of the morphs in corns have their origins from rat snakes.
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Well, my first thought is that I feel a bit vindicated because I got in an argument years ago on the BLBC about whether Banana would carry over in a hybrid. I assured them it would and was told that I was wrong LOL. The hypothetical was if a Banana was bred to an Angolan and not a Sumatran but, frankly, it does not matter either way as I was proven correct.

In a broader sense, I have no real strong feelings about hybrids. If people want to do them, fine with me. If people do not want to do them, also fine with me.