So I have a 40 gallon tank with my pair of American toads. I know I made a thread a while back asking about toad cohabitation in general but I have thought about it and done some research and dumpy/whites tree frog see like they would do perfect in my toad tank. They both get roughly the same size and have almost identical care. My biggest worry about cohabing was the toads trying to eat anything smaller than them but it wouldn’t be a problem with a whites tree frog. What do you guys think?
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Some toads/frogs let out toxins.
Defo don’t cohab frogs and toads.
Dart frogs you can get away with at times, if one lives top and other bottom but that’s it x
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That is a good point about the poison that toads have however American toads are extremely reluctant to secrete it. My male hates being picked up (to be put in a rain chamber) and would like nothing more than to get away yet he still never has secreted any toxin. Whites tree frogs are completely harmless when it comes to poison. I know it seems like it could be an issue but at least with my toads I don’t think it would be a problem
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I still wouldn’t mix. It’s not worth the risk.
You don’t fully know if will be ok when mixing together.
And upon looking others also say to not mix toads with anything.
There was a discussion actually back along on a group on WhatsApp about this funny enough, someone wanting to put their toads with white and milks. And all said to not do it as not safe.
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Ok. I still think I will try it in the future when I have an extra enclosure. I personally feel that multi species cohabitation is something that needs to be looked into more so they will be very closely monitored to make sure everyone is healthy and safe. I will probably wait a year or two until I have more experience.
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What you’re proposing is irresponsible and unethical. It’s not just about toxins, it’s about the safety of the animals (you can’t monitor them 24/7). What happens if one is immune to a disease the other is not since they’re from opposite sides of the world? What if one transmits something to the other that otherwise wouldn’t have happened because these species never mix? A general rule is never to cohab an animal with another they wouldn’t encounter in their natural environment.
This isn’t about experience, it’s about responsibility. You can look into cohabbing if you think it needs it, but you need to do so in a way that is safe, controlled, and doesn’t create unnecessary risk.
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What about dart frogs and mourning geckos? They don’t “need” each other and are from very different places. I know people cohabitate different frogs from opposite sides of the world.
I know my toads better than anyone else and what I have observed and learned about my toads in the year I have owned them makes me feel comfortable possibly introducing a new species.
Also could you please elaborate on how it is unethical?
I really, really don’t want anyone to takes this the wrong way I just was looking for a friendly conversation about cohabiting different species. Also please remember this is all hypothetical
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It’s much less likely for a dart frog to transmit an illness to a gecko. It also depends on the species and how similar they are along with the areas they’re from. Just because people do things doesn’t mean it’s right, nor is it for everyone.
Your toads are still wild animals, for a good example see something like this:
This guy thought he knew how his toads would react and yet was entirely surprised by what he saw.
As for how it’s unethical, you’re introducing two species who would otherwise not have contact. It is a biological risk, and a physical risk to the animals themselves as there’s no way to predict how they might react to each other. Your proposed plan is just sticking everyone in the same enclosure and hoping it works out. Are you going to have the animals seen by a vet beforehand to make sure neither is carrying any sort of transmissible parasite or illness? Will you be able to observe 24/7 and intervene if there is a problem before an animal is hurt? You’re still in school, unless you’re homeschooled, you won’t be around a good portion of the day to keep an eye on things.
Personally, if you’re going to cohab, you need to start much closer to what you’re already working with and get some experience first. Start with animals that have been successfully cohabbed by others and build outward from there. To just put together two species you want to try it with is just setting yourself up for a lot of problems.
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So @logar Logan what you are getting here is the answer to your question asked, plain and simple. Actually you got the same answer twice from 2 people who have a lot more experience than you do, right now, at the age of 14? Or 15?
What you are getting in addition is constructive criticism/feedback. Albeit hypothetically as well. Believe me I have had a lot of constructive criticism here but I have learned from it and I am glad the people here care enough about the animals to be honest with me even if my feelings get hurt because the animals are what we are all about here in the first place.
Now. I would love to be able to combine my leo and my crestie to create more space, but that would absolutely not work. If I asked that question hypothetically like you are asking here, I would get the same constructive criticism:feedback. They are both GECKOS, right? Could I combine them to make more space? Absolutely a big fat no!
So hypothetically, even though you have 2 species/types of TOADS, it is simply not possible/safe to combine them in the same tank
without potentially hypothetically ending up with a maimed/dead animal. And I don’t know about you but I don’t want a maimed/dead animal on my conscience…….for no good reason.
You seem to be very mature just from reading a lot of your posts in the past and I think the more experience you get under your belt you are going to make a real expert in the world of slithery creatures! 
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@noodlehaus I was planning on doing a vet visit (for toads and frog) along with a 12 month quarantine and 6 months of observation of the whites tree frog (to see how it behaves on its own) before introducing them. you are right about school however I was planning on doing this in the summer so I have more time to watch them.
I do think you are right that I should start with something easier to cohab (not saying i won’t do it eventually). toads are really, really food motivated. my female will try and eat the droplets of the leaves while i am spraying however she leaves her boyfriend alone completely which is interesting. thanks for the advice and everything you do for this comunity.
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It’s always good to start with something that there’s already info there for, then move onto the projects you want. Best way to build up the knowledge to get some really good data and possibly help open up the discussion on cohabbing further. I’m glad you’re already planning ahead, and it sounds like the more research you do, if you do decide to try this project out in the future, you’ll have the skills to do it in the safest way to have the best possible outcome for your studies and the animals.
I do apologize for replying over-passionately at times, I know you’re doing all you can to learn and better yourself as a keeper, and that’s really awesome! Especially wanting to pursue an area that isn’t often delved into and open the discussion into it more. Don’t ever stop being curious, just remember caution alongside curiosity and you’ll do great!
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As said, I definitely do not think co-habbing them is a good idea. Just because you know people who do, doesn’t mean that they should either.
The temp and humidity requirements are so different, along with the entire continent difference between the species in the wild.
If you absolutely want to have a multispecies environment, you need to be looking at the area that the animal is living in the wild. Obviously, as stated, competition and aggression can be a huge thing… but if you were to house a species that your toad would encounter here? Much safer and better for the animals as the habitat requirements are similar enough already. For example 5 lined skinks or green anoles. Other amphibians could be gray tree frogs like the video linked mentions american green tree frogs or tiger salamanders
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I probably should have mentioned this in the first post but I didn’t just bring this up because i wanted to save space. One of the reasons I wanted to do this was because I am extremely interested in animal (specifically reptile and amphibian) behavior. I love just watching how they interact with their environments and in the case of my two toads, each other.
@armiyana actually toads and whites tree frogs has really similar care. they both require about 50% humidity with spikes up to 70%. as for temperatures whites tree frogs do like it a little warmer but toads still do great at that temp. green anoles require higher humidity than toads and my toads could risk becoming sick if I kept them at that higher humidity. I actually didn’t think about 5 line skinks. I will definitely look into it.
thanks for everyones thoughts on this and hope everyone has a great day
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So I have continued to do research on this topic and this is what I have come up with comparing the two
| Information/Care | American Toad | Whites Tree Frog |
|---|---|---|
| Size | 2-4.5 inches | 2.5-4.5 |
| Arboreal/Terrestrial | Terrestrial | Arboreal |
| Hardiness (1-10) | 8 | 7 |
| Temp range | 35-90 | 65-85 |
| Humidity | 45-65% with spikes up to 90% | 50-60% average with spikes up to 90% |
| Activity time | Nocturnal; active periodically throughout the day | Nocturnal |
| Lifespan | Average of 15-20 years but up to 40+ years | Average of 15 but up to 20 years |
| Intelligence (10 being croc monitor level) | -4 | 2 |
| Lighting required | Day cycle (UVB can be used but isn’t needed) | Day cycle (UVB can be used but isn’t needed) |
| Supplements | Dusted insects (Calcium with or without UVB) | Dusted insects (Calcium with UVB if lighting isn’t given) |
| Breeding difficulty | Very difficult | Moderate |
| Feeding frequency | 1-3 times a week | 2-3 times a week |
| Difficulty | Beginner friendly | Beginner friendly |
| Enclosure size minimum (per animal) | 24x18x12 | 18x18x24 |
| Socially oriented? | Somewhat | No |
| Same species cohab? | Yes | Yes |
| Captive Breeding | Next to none | Fairly common |
I am actually thinking about converting a china cabinet into a large enclosure with a mini pond, custom background, built in rain chamber, tons of plants, etc. and wouldn’t do it unless I do end up going through with the cabinet conversion.
I would like to say that while there may seem to be a huge size difference between a 2 inch and 4 inch frog but in all honesty, there shouldn’t be an issue as the mouth sizes don’t get much bigger between the two sizes. I am not ever worried about my 3-4 inch female going after my 2 inch male.
I know what everyone thought of before but I want to see if that has changed. I have put in so much time into researching this and genuinely think it could end up working out great.
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I have to admit, I’m still not really a fan of cohabbing species from entirely different locales and such. Especially with some of the cute chubby toads Australia has. XD;
But I really do appreciate the time and research that you put into things. The breakdown is well done. And in the end it seems like you can do a nice middle ground for the two. And a large enough space for them as well, always good.
There still can be a big difference in that 2-4 inch range when it comes to these guys, but that’s where the monitoring and husbandry takes priority. I have seen some amphibians grab the others during feeding times. If it was my group (like how I have kept female leo geckos in the past, but that can be it’s own drama…) I would try to keep them as similar in size as possible. Tong feeding would be great as well if they let you.
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I think everyone recommending you avoid it is also the advice I would give. However, since you are really passionate and seem eager to do it, I think the safest way (aside from the precautions you have already mentioned) would be to ensure the enclosure is tall enough to ensure the tree frogs essentially have a seperate biome from the toads, to allow both species to remain fully and safely seperate despite being in the same enclosure.
However, both species are often so food motivated and movement triggered I still wouldn’t do it, but perhaps there is a way to do it safely, I’m far from an expert
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For sure. Turns out I was pretty much spot on with there sizes. Spotify is exactly 3.5 inches and pandora is about 2. Here is a picture comparing them. The pic messes up the tape measure vs toad size and makes Spotify look 3 inches but she really is 3.5.
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I think the size of enclosure is important if you are going to “overlap”/keep different species together. If the enclosure is large enough they will choose their areas. I had sent a reply to your other thread (sorry i am new on here). I know people may not agree with me but I agree with you. You know your toads over time. They all have different personalities and traits. My chubby frogs, woodhouse toads, American toads and 1 grey tree frog all live peacefully together. I have different biomes: mossy vines running horizontally & vertically (where my tree frog occupies most of the time). I have caves/hides, plants. The perimeter is kept moister and is lined with new zealand sphagnum moss. The entire surface is covered with leaf litter. Soil is 6 inches deep for the burrowers. There is a larger pond that is changed every 2 days. I have lotus pods & driftwood for my isopods & springtails (cleanup crew). As long as you can provide good biome and they have space & continue to monitor their interactions they should thrive peacefully & healthy. You can take extra precautions before adding the new member by quarantining for 30-60 days & monitor for health problems.
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