I’ve been in this industry in a large way years ago before retiring. However my specialty was chameleons. (Not the reptile I’m having an issue with now). At one time it was thought that I was the largest producer of captive panthers in North America. I had a company and did it full time for 17 years. My point in saying this is only to point out that from a business/hobby building standpoint 1) it’s important to attract new blood aka inexperienced new to reptiles buyers for the industry as a whole 2) it’s important to support reputable honest business practices.
I got back in as a small hobbyist. I’m not looking to go overboard and slam down someone’s business. But I do think it very vital if you’re a verified buyer from an MM seller you should be able to review that item regardless of time if it’s applicable. That’s all.
The simple fact that there’s an issue with purchase and you contact that seller and they have zero interest in getting back is just plain unacceptable. And shouldn’t be protected.
I will also add that I love the MM site. It’s great in so many ways. I think there should be restrictions on the reviews in that if someone uses it to attack that seller in a fashion not applicable to that seller and the purchase state of the animal. I’m not holding MM responsible for this seller. But can you buy on FB and add a review at any time. Yes.
Because it wasn’t apparent that soon. It didn’t occur to me to doubt. I trusted this breeder. Then I’m wondering why there’s no interest in breeding. I go to an experienced breeder here. Boom. You have two of the same sex.
Not every buyer is experienced in that animal.
Whats so hard to understand? Why does there have to be a limit??
It’s not going to be apparent unless you sex them. I don’t know how it works with chameleons but these are different animals. That should have been one of the first things you did when you got them.
It would be like buying a frozen pizza at the grocery store and taking it back 2 weeks later because you thought it was delicious pepperoni and it was mushroom and olives (a tragedy no doubt but still).
I’m with you on the general point that we have to grow the hobby with new blood not just recycle buying snakes off each other but if you didn’t sex your animals for 6 months that can’t be on MM.
That’s also not on MM. Obviously there’s a level of trust anytime you make a purchase of anything, from anyone, but you still need to make sure you got the right goods or services. That applies everywhere.
The thing is even “trusted breeders” make mistakes. I ALWAYS check sex, and QUARANTINE animals NO MATTER who they come from. Having someone come back 4-5 years down the road and say hey you owe me because i bought this and it won’t breed or is the wrong sex is an issue. Why shouldn’t you as a buyer be held responsible for your own actions. If you choose to wait months or years to have an animal sexed then you should take some of the responsibility.
Now with that said most reputable breeders would offer something in return for the mistake.
What snake did you purchase that you are unable to tell sex on for 6 months? I am honestly not aware of any snake that would take longer than 6 months to tell the sex on… But like i said i am not familiar with every snake out there.
I guess the question we are coming to is, is there a way to remove the time limit on reviews/allow editing on reviews and maintain a fair environment for both parties. That does seem very very daunting after reading both comments I tend to agree with @stewart_reptiles I am not sure how you would police that except with massive amounts of time spent verifying every single review. It sucks that this happened to you but unless someone has a realistic way (meaning Deb, John etc can’t be spending 4 hours every day checking reviews) to make that change work I don’t know how they would do it.
They were young. It did not occur to me I needed to have them sexed. I trusted this experienced breeder. Now I’m breeding season - yes - I’m questioning what’s wrong And hence here we are … with a breeder who refuses to even answer an email on the issue. And considering what I paid - yeah, I’m not very happy at all. And I can’t get another now to breed this year.
Now you know. Expensive lesson but essential. Should be one of the first things you do when you get them. Chameleons have different appearances so no need to sex them like snakes, right?
I suppose the REAL question should be what is an exceptable time frame to leave a review or adjust your review: 4 months, 6 months, 1 year, 3 years… and In there lies the problem.
for instance a person buys an animal that had been eating f/t without issue and then 9 months later the animal stops eating f/t should they then be able to go back and change the review because of something that is out of the sellers control??
Well I’m not gonna say now I know. This breeder who sold these as a sexed pair at a high price should have to have a review reflecting such. Sorry. @thecrawdfather And yes chameleons are sexed before sold. Can mistakes be made. Yes. Especially if you aren’t experienced. If that happened to someone I sold to would I rectify it. YES.
And as a breeder for many many years, I always got back to people. And I always tried to help or make things right. Always.
The POINT of reviews is to reflect what type of seller someone is. I’d say this should be added to their reviews. Without doubt. They sold something as rare and as a sexed pair. And charged A LOT. Not ethical.
This can also be subjective. I have been a member of MorphMarket from the very beginning and prior to the ratings program you were able to leave a “review” so to speak of the seller that only MorphMarket and the seller could see. I received an inquiry on a snake, answered every single question the person asked (all 20) within a timely manner, sent multiple photos from every angle requested. The person decided not to purchase and the review i received back was " i seemed like i was disinterested in selling the animal. "
Not sure how much more interested i should have or could have been.
I get it. I know there are a ton of people who aren’t about being reasonable, fair or honest on both sides. And that makes it hard for people who are.
Perhaps if a seller is refusing to respond - and I guess this is why I went to MM - could they not at least contact the seller to say there’s an issue would you please respond to the buyer Idk For me, a big issue is the non response.
But opening to drama and unfounded attacks - which I KNOW this industry has a bunch of ppl who love to do it - is not something to be open to or supported either.
I’m just asking for some sense of good business politics and etiquette.
Having said that - I’ve bought from a couple of other sellers on MM who have gone beyond what was paid for. Kudo’s to those breeders! Anyway … wishing all of you the best I’m sure I’ll live Stay safe y’all
Well I’m not on the forums for it. @thecrawdfather And a busy chick. But ppl still do contact me to ask questions. Lol As always, I have no issue to help.
Not sure if I can mention my own company here ?? - now shut down (yeah I’m an old timer compared to many of you lol but not THAT old ha!) - not bc I wasn’t successful. I very much was. It was just time to semi-retire. I’m a writer and had other projects to start devoting my time to.
That’s awesome! And thanks for the input it’s good even if everyone doesn’t agree on the specifics I know they want to always be improving the service and it gives people something to chew on even if nothing happens right away.
I have broken this out from the “why can’t we rating on forums” topic, because the real question here, or debate, is “Should buyers be given an unlimited amount of time to leave negative ratings on sellers?”.
When people hit a problem, they typically overlook some things. First, they see it only from their own perspective. They also don’t realize that MM as a starting point doesn’t know who to trust and we get lied to by both sides. (Their view; of course I am telling the truth, now do something!) We have to seek out the truth or at least find a compromise. We do this both in how we set or policies as well as resolving individual situations.
The details of this particular situation:
Purchased Oct 21 – more than 6 months ago.
Currently we allow ratings to be left only for 120 days after the transaction. We just increased that from 90 to 120 days this past month.
After talking with the buyer we did remove the positive rating they had left.
Situations like this are very hard to prove. The buyer also has provided no evidence that what they claim is true, and it would be hard to do so.
The seller has already responded, on their own, and offered a refund or discount. Sometimes sellers just don’t check their messages that often especially if they are not year round selling.
Back to the big question though, “Should buyers be given an unlimited amount of time to leave negative ratings on sellers?” As has been mentioned above, we have set a 4 month limit on this time period, for a number of reasons. The most general situation would be killing the animal and then coming back and harming the seller for something they had no control over. They may do this genuinely or they may attempt to use this as leverage for cash or discounts.
Do our policies always optimize every situation? No… but that’s impossible. Our goal is the best possible system overall. The reason why this works out is sort of like karma. If a seller has bad practices, the ratings will catch up with them, even not everyone with a bad experience is able to rate. Thats our view of the bigger picture, and we understand that a user may not be thinking about that when they are seeking justice for their situation but cannot mete it out because they’re in an edge case. Truth will prevail, and that’s why our ratings system is both fair and useful.
All that being said, now that the rating system has been out for over a year now, I do want to review its policies in the coming year. For instance, I do support users being able to retract their rating. This is something right now that only admins can do. I am open to being convinced about other changes, but one must understand the many factors we are balancing.
I just made my first mm purchase of 3 geckos and after keeping contact with the seller since December we both agreed upon temp and date. After receiving the geckos I realized there were some obvious husbandry issues with the animals overfed, bad sheds, multiple missing toes, still stuck shed. Somewhat upset, However I didn’t pay a lot for them and feel they are better off with me. I’m torn on wether or not to leave a negative review. I contacted them once I recieved them and told them they had arrived and we’re safe. I never heard from them again and it has been about a week. Do I bash the guy for being an idiot? Or myself for dealing with one? (The toes thing in on me,. I should of asked for full foot photos but that was me assuming others do what they can to keep happy healthy animals)
I would leave a review reflecting the condition of the animals. If they were in poor condition, then leave a review reflecting such. But since you didn’t pay much for them and they had missing toes, were they wild caught? If they were wild caught then missing toes, tails, and scars should be expected.
They’re leopard geckos, so missing toes is to be “expected” with poor care, (I guess). He has no leopards left since he gave me his other stating he has “no time for them”. I feel like that’s what I bought into. He has crested geckos left, But again it’s sadly one of those popular, simple gecko breeds. It’d be better to see them go else where than him be stuck with them over a bad review.
I’m sure I’ll live 
Stay safe y’all 