Benefits of a normal ball python (the neglected one Edit: and harmed one) in collections

What do you think are the benefits of having normal (wild type) ball pythons in your collection?
Do you like normals and why ?

I think there are many reasons to have one or two,
here is one to get us going. They are pretty and have awesome alien heads. But there are more serious reasons.

Edit, also see post 7 regarding possible harm.

I guess we can include Normals with het too.

Two of mine;-

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I think knowing the natural beauty of the species is very important when thinking about the beauty of genetic mutations. Being able to compare a normal to a high end lavender albino can bring a much-needed appreciation for the morph, it brings new vision to projects. Market wise, genetics matter, meaning having a normal may not always be the best option if you can buy or have one with some inc dominants. So yes, normals have their natural beauty but when trying to make hatchlings with stacked genes, they sometimes are overlooked.

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Yes agree with all that Lumpy. Except with much respect and personally, I don’t think we appreciate the beauty of a normal and are caught up too much with morphs.
I also agree about the market not valuing them which causes problems.
I have seen them for as little as £10 and even free. Sad and dangerous for the snake.
But there are ways to avoid that risk.

But there are still many many good reasons to have one or two.
Any other thoughts from others?
There a a couple of clues in the tags :wink: but loads more in my humble opinion.

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Adding new blood into a collection, and providing a blank slate to identification breed are both adequate reasons to have a normal or two. @ascended

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The benefits of a normal…
I think to prove out any other Royal it’s paired too!

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So true in my humble opinion.

@lumpy agreed. Some of the newest morphs can get a little narrow in genetic diversity due to the rush to create more of them.
And identification of what genes an animal has. I say its easier with crossing with a normal. especially with alleged multi gene animals. crossing with other multi gene animals can confuse the identification of the genes around.

There are more reasons people, I am obviously trying to promote normals.

P.S, I don’t know much thats why am am asking,

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Why am I trying to promote them?. besides of all the reasons mentioned and many other reasons not mentioned.
But mainly, because MorphMarket UK breeders have them for as little as £20 and USA MorphMarket $25, Other sad sites like crages list and uk equivalents sell for as little as zero to $10. That’s a bad dangerous message.
This worries me that they might go to homes on other sites that think they have a pet that’s equally cheep to house and maintain, possibly leading to neglect. It happens.
A normal is as expensive to house and maintain as the latest 5 figure morph.
I believe it starts with us as hobbyists. If we do not value them, other less scruples people will value them less too.
After all, a normal is as good a pet as the latest morph. (better in my opinion) and has other benefits for breeders.
Rant over, sorry to get heavy.

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The irony here is that if people wouldn’t insist on breeding their normals, we’d have lot less of them and the market value wouldn’t be so low…. A perfect example of “just because you love an animal does’t mean you need to breed it”. In fact in this example I’d argue that the people who are advocating for normals not breed them, because there’s so many on craigslist/pet stores/MorphMarket that intentionally breeding for more seems irresponsible.

I like wild types and think the natural variation is absolutely stunning, while I don’t personally have any, I enjoy looking at them. At the end of the day morph is just a color/pattern, a ball python is still a ball python.

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ghoulish is correct, some breeders use normals in a project to identify multiple genes in a “stacked snake”. I use single gene albinos for this, the added benefit is some cool hets.

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@khigg That is a better idea.

You do have a point.
I am not advocating breeding them more, just for them to be valued more.
In fact my plans are to not create any normals.
Sometimes breeders also do create normals while breeding morphs.
For example putting a banana to a normal with the aim of making bananas.
Or even a Lesser to Lesser to make some supers. Both will produce normals.
My plan is to work mainly with supers to avoid creating any normals as a by product.
As for my normal, she is only going to my super banana, and not every year.
Later the super banana will go to a super mojave, again no normals.

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I’m going to disagree here. I personally don’t know anyone who uses normals to identify stacked snakes. Breeders will already of identified “stacked snakes” when they hatched.

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freedom breeder for one. Seems like the popular thing for the “staff” is to disagree with me. Let’s not turn this great community into a facebook group.

I would disagree with anyone advocating breeding of normal ball pythons.

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Sure, we are all different. I breed and wholesale my animals thus I have a totally different perspective as you. Respect is key for this to be the place to go for good conversation and information.

Nothing I said was disrespectful you made a personal comment about “staff”.

And your making an assumption that I don’t.

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You seem to be looking for an argument, so I’m going out to check my traps. peace brother

I am in full agreement with Shaun here. Nothing he said was personal, it was you that made it personal and disrespectful with the backhanded “staff” comment

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Lets be nice. We can kill a discussion and learning otherwize. I am always prepared to reconsider my position, we all should be. (Not directed to anyone)

As I said, may aim is to not to create any normals eventually, but I want at least one in my collection.
(I cant afford super x super starting out so might have to create some supers with the risk of some normals initially until I can have enough super x supre to not need that.)
Normals are the roots of all ball pythons. they are pretty and so variable.
To be totally clear, mine are het albino anyway, and would either go with a super banana or visual albino, or rest and eventually be a pet only.
Also might a very bright or very dark normal be good to improve certain projects?

Do you mean, from a line that is known for the observed traits may pass down to the offspring but is not a true single mutation but a polygenic trait?

I do not believe anyone is critical of normals that come from breedings like this. The issue that many people have is the newbie that has a pair of Craigslist “rescues” and decides to breed them for no reason other than because it is a pair. That is irresponsible. The parent animals were already unwanted (hence them ending up on Craigslist) so why is there a need to make MORE of them?
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And I know many breeders that only keep normals for this exact reason. But none of them are breeding them just “because”

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