So I’m comming closer to the point where breeding my own rodents is something that I’m ready to do. I’m leaning towards ASF, I know that trying to sell snakes being fed on ASF can be a problem but more towards older snakes as with anything. That’s kind of the least of my worries though. I had planned to produce my own FT once I could produce and maintain enough to start freezing my own but with ASF it might just be easier to feed live and keep grow out colonies for the most part. Rats smell a little less , Mice are fast breeders and you can rotate males just to name a few pros for me. Are ASF over hyped? I was planning on mice for the hatchlings and rats for the life span switching to FT once established. But I’m being sold on ASF,. I’ve seen a lot for and against all three. Is starting off hatchlings on ASF a good idea or would I still be better off producing a few mouse hoppers along side them? Rats or ASF, FT or Live?
Yes ASF are over hyped not all snakes will take them, they are not the miracle feeder people thought they were, they are aggressive, escape artist jumping like popcorn soon as you open their tubs and illegal in several states. I bred them for a year before realizing it was a waste of time and space.
I breed rats and mice, I used to start all BP hatchlings on rats but as I started to breed mice for my colubrids I began to offer mice to BP hatchlings as well.
I get a much higher % of animals taken their first first time offered where as with rats it might take several weeks and it sometime it might not even work at all and you still have to offer mice.
At a young age BP are easy to switch, most of my hatchlings are switch anywhere between meal 2 to 4.
My advice breed both mice and rats because you never know, and having the right feeder type as a snake breeder is essential.
I’m very happy with my ASF. They don’t smell as bad as regular rats and are easy to breed. They are escape artists, but my rats have pretty good temperaments.i can occasionally pet them and I clean by setting up a new tub and then just transferring them. They haven’t tried to escape during this process. I also haven’t had any problems switching between mice,rats, and ASF.
Been breeding ASFs for a few years now, the difference it has made in my breeders and hold backs, I can honestly say I would pay more money for an animal raised on ASFs. I feed mice and rats to the animals I plan to sell because people are afraid of ASF raised animals, and I feed ASFs to my hold backs and there is a 100% difference between two animal from the same clutch. Would definitely pay more for ASF raised animals
The tide is definitely turning. I think some of the “snakes get addicted to them” narrative is turning out to be more myth than fact…and I’m hearing more and more from people like you that there is a significant noticeable difference in snakes raised on them.
I think they’re just better. Still not as readily available a lot of places but I think they’re going to grow and grow in popularity.
Biggest things holding them back the reputation of being more “difficult” to get breeding, taking longer to grow up, temperament etc…and the snakes getting addicted to them thing. And being illegal some places. Definitely some drawbacks but a lot of those can be worked out with line breeding and a couple “extra” care steps. Overall better healthier food equals better healthier snakes!
I think more people should give them a try, there are lots of snake keepers out there looking for an ASF supply 
The aggression and prolific chewing can be line bred/culled out. They require extra work and better diet than Norwegians but once you get them going litters every 30 days, you can really ramp them up after a few months of startup time.
I have just acquired some juvenile asf’s and am starting a couple colonies. They are all weaned and not bred so excited for the future of having my own supply. I’ve had them two weeks and no smell. I am not feeding them to bp yet. I interact with them couple times a day and they don’t bite . Good luck on whatever route you go
Take everything I say with the usual pinch of ignorance, but follow me.
Ball Pythons come from Africa.
In Africa there is no “common rat”… Their common rats are ASFs.
This is what they eat in the wild. They don’t have access to a choice of mice, “common rats”, quail… Etc just ASFs.
The only issue I see is when we are talking boas, retics, burms… Snakes that need a meal that realistically isn’t going to be filled by a ASF.
They might not grow as quickly as on rats but Ball pythons can 100% thrive.
Take that as you wish, but remember I have zero qualifications in anything relating to this.
Yeah definitely. They’re a natural food source and leaner, more protein heavy, they’re just better. Obviously not for retics etc but that shouldn’t matter. There has to be 50 pet ball pythons for every boa, retic, and Burmese combined. (Total guesswork, point being enough to support a large demand for ASFs by themselves)
I haven’t been feeding/breeding ASF’s very long, but what I’m gathering is that the weight of food vs. weight of snake rule isn’t as high as it is when you feed rats?
You’d have to look up the exact numbers…but I believe it’s roughly double the protein per gram or close to that. So you could feed at least a size “smaller” and be fine.
Although with younger snakes it’s just going to help them grow faster so you could still feed size appropriate ASFs by the eyeball test.
I think for me I just wouldn’t feel it necessary to feed 2-3 ASFs to an adult BP to feel they were getting “enough.”
I guess since I’m lauding their benefits I should learn the particulars. I’ll do some further research. Perhaps someone that has a couple years experience with them could weigh in as well.
All good, I’ve noticed mine seem content with 1 or 2 ASFs when they would usually take a small or medium rat that weighs more. And they are gaining weight so something is right! Great to be able to come here and verify with other’s experiences
Here’s a nice short (8 min) video by Gavin of Balls2U over in the UK.
It’s not a data chart or anything but I know he has years of experience with both Norwegian/fancy rats and the ASFs so I think it’s a good perspective. Still haven’t found a chart or anything confirming the exact figures on protein per gram or anything…
But in this video he touches on higher protein content, less wasted rodents (can just offer an ASF to a smaller BP if a big female refuses a meal as opposed to having to throw away a large/medium rat), better digestion on ASFs (less poo, less smelly,) and better color retention in snakes as they grow on ASFs as opposed to Norwegian rats. I’ll keep looking. I believe Gavin is a good reliable info source on all things feeders, he has a lot of good content on his rat setups as well.
“Beef burger vs Steak.”
That speaks to me 
Thanks man!!! Very much appreciated
No problem. I’m sure I’m gonna have some speed bumps along the way I’ll try and document how things go hopefully I’ll have an idea what I’m doing in 6 months
Yeah, I figure it’ll take me awhile to get it all sorted. Doesn’t help I keep adding to my collection… Currently working on growing up a bunch so I have plenty to go through and plenty of size choice. DM me or throw it on here if you make any revelations
The aggression can definitely be bread out, I’ve watched me do it lol. the chewing is easy to deal with…give em something to chew on…I use applewood chips for smoking meat, I buy them in bulk pretty cheap: throw a handful in each tub, Applewood is rodent safe and it gives them a hard wood chew toy they run around and play with…at the end of the week they get dumped with the bedding so no worry about a chew block getting nasty fresh handful goes in with new bedding
If you want some tips and tricks I’m sure @akmorphs can drop a few.
Her asf collection has exploded since she got them.
