That’s not true there is over 2000 spider/spider combos for sale on MorphMarket right now. It’s by far one of the most worked with gene among breeders.
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I just want to let you know, and I see your stance and how it makes sense. In all honesty, the reason I choose not to get involved with these debates is because we as a community, not just MRC but all reptile keepers, are choosing to divide among ourselves. That is a civil war, so I truly stand for peace from both parties. My belief is that there should be compassion for both beliefs and opinions. How we do that, I don’t know, but I know it starts with listening to both sides. Possibly the hobby in the future will come up with true scientific evidence that we can all trust. But until then, we should stick together because what unites us is greater then what doesn’t, we are essentially our own society.
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I probably missed a few threads along the way but I agree. There should be no right or wrong answer to this.
A lot of people don’t realise that improper housing is a huge factor with these snakes.
Unless someone has scientific proof of issues then I don’t see how they can be deemed as imperfect.
We’ve had our spider 8 years I think 🤷 and he has slight head wobble when feeding and when I clean his enclosure out. He is a great snake and great with our eldest son. We know his triggers so we tend to minimise them and he is the best feeder and least fussiest out of all our snakes.
I should add that spider gene is my favourite.
We bred or spider last year to get our lil firebee, now we have her we probably won’t breed him again, but that’s because we got what we wanted.
I can’t say for sure if we will breed the firebee in future, (she has slight head wobble) but for now she is our pet, as is the spider and they will stay with us just like all our snakes as they are our pets.
As for the offspring, they started their lives out better than our non spider clutch!
If people don’t want to breed them, then don’t but if people do want to breed them then be prepared to keep them all (I had secretly hoped to keep them all) just like you would with any clutch just incase there are problems.
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I picked up my Bumblebee this past spring. She was a Petco Fancy ball python. LOL
She does have a slight wobble but has become less noticeable as she ages. Even with it , she’s one of my best feeders weighing in at 505 grams.
As for breeding. I do plan to pair her with Opie , my OD Fire Yellowbelly in a couple of years. Spider combos are beautiful snakes. If the wobble was moderate to severe , I wouldn’t think of breeding her.
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So very cute 
I love bumblebees.
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I got some super cinnamon a few months ago, and it started an argument I never truly wanted. I decided based on what I’d heard then to not breed, although I was already planning on not breeding. I accept all that was said and all feedback that was given, despite the side. I have a boxer, and he was a rescue of ours from an abusive family, and because of that his back legs became paralyzed and we’ve only had him a month but we will probably end up putting him down this week sometime. He was an amazing dog the entire time we had him and it will still be hard for us to let him go… But he is in pain, and it is cruel to let an animal live like that, though that doesn’t mean boxers aren’t amazing dogs in their years of prime 
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I also have a spider ball Python whom I’ve had for 8 years and she is an absolute angel and has never shown any signs of a wobble since I’ve had her. I just wanted to share my experience and my opinion, although I respect both sides, and stand for peace. I really believe that these animals can be something but know the consequences that can, but not always, occur from trying. Thank you!
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I will preface this by saying I love Spiders a great deal, have produced many and have no concerns over producing more. Evaluate your animals health individually as you would for any mutation before putting it in rotation and don’t breed from those with any health concerns.
There is no actual sales ban on Spider balls in the UK as is often commented. One expo group has instigated a sales ban at their show, this has no reach beyond the show. Private sales and pet store sales are unaffected. The same expo prohibits the sale of Enigma leopard geckos and Jaguar carpets. The very same event ignores terrible table standard and welfare failures.
The Spider thing is to molify the animal rights concern but is a nonsense ruling based on little other than the wider publics misunderstanding of the issue. Do these mutations have welfare concerns? Sure, but Spider most certainly is not what certain youtubers would have you believe.
The hobby should self police much better, partake in less conflated drama and focus on improving welfare standards. Outsiders looking in only see clowns abusing animals, it is not constructive content and the hobby at large should stop supporting this behaviour.
I see very few comments questioning the ethics surrounding Woma, Chocolate, Sable or Champagne amongst others. Where is the witch hunt for these mutations? Spider is an easy target and an unfortunate focus of peoples time that would be better spent looking for more suitable enclosure inovations.
Let the Spider issues be the individual concern of each breeder just has other mutation and combo concerns are. Improve your table standard at shows you vend, improve enclosure standards in your facility and be better keepers.
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So sorry to hear about your boxer. It’s so hard loosing your best friend, especially when making the decision to end it, but your doing what is best for your pet.
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Yeah, he is wonderful. I hate making my kids go through that, especially my 6 year old who is very bonded to Rolo. It will be a hill for the whole family to climb but we have 5 other amazing dogs to help us, and many other pets to keep us busy, and I hope it doesn’t hit my kids too hard. They need to learn that humans can be cruel to animals and what animal abuse can do to them. It sucks, but he is suffering and I made sure as soon as I found he was in pain I got a date to put him down, and any chance I could take to possibly save him is a 50% chance to save him but him suffer through extreme pain every day, 50% chance for it not even to work and I font want him to have to go through that he is an awesome dog and so from now on every experience with him for these last few days will be in my heart forever.
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Spider, like all morphs, would result in the death of the animal in it’s natural environment. It doesn’t matter if you are talking color morphs, scaleless, or any other genetic dispositions that vary too far from “normal”. Just like red beardies, spotted dalmatian geckos, albino mbk’s or any other genetic variation in domesticated animals and the pet trade. That’s why an albino deer or dolphin is so stunning to see in the wild. They have somehow survived predation and environmental exposure to reach adulthood. You can see a captive albino gator in a zoo. You wont see one in the wild. Spider gene is an issue we each need to address as individuals. Should my neighbor not have a rottweiler because of hip dysplasia? Should my sister not have any more children because her third child has down syndrome? Should I not have a spider BP because someone else doesn’t like it. Me personally, I have no issues with the spider gene. I am happy to have it in two of my pets and I will be breeding them.
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Spider (along with many, many other morphs including albino) were actually originally found in the wild. The normal patterning has been evolved to give the snakes the highest chance of survival. All other patterns have a much lower chance of survival but that doesn’t mean it always results in death.
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I hope you arent planning to breed them together. Spider + spider =25% dead babies. Not saying not to breed them, just dont breed spider to spider.
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They are both female. Can’t breed em together if I tried.
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I have never owned or breed a spider so take what I have to say with little importance but I have no problem with people who breed spider ball pythons but I don’t think I could personally do it knowing there’s always a chance I’m gonna have and animal that will have severe wobble I one day would like to get one just as a pet since the gene can make some pretty cool looking snakes
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If spider, or albino, or any other “morph” was beneficial to the species survival the majority of the species would display the trait. “Normal” wild type bps evolved for a reason. Because a morph was captured in the wild or, farmed from wild eggs doesn’t mean it will survive and reproduce. Genetic anomalies appear in every species. If it is beneficial to the species they evolve and become the “norm”. More often than not their environment kills them off.
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If they are captured as an adult, @erie-herps would be correct in his understanding. I do agree with you @nolagregg, if they are caught as babies and no other “morph” type animals are caught. But if several “morph” type balls of various ages are found. It does imply, that there is an adult who is reproducing. ( for non-recessive )
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Recessive and dominant genes will continue to express themselves in every species. I believe as many morphs that have been discovered that many more are still out there. But a singular or even multiple appearances of genetic variables doesn’t make it a viable change to benefit the species. There are 7ft humans. Lots of them. Also multiple forms of dwarfism. They die much younger than archetype humans. Same thing with genetic expressions in the wild. Color changes in offspring? Maybe you can’t attract mates or, you stand out to predators. Born without further? Loose your thermal insulation and become more vulnerable to parasites… It’s the same thing with bps. If Tpos or Tneg albinism was beneficial to the species than 99% of the species would take on the appearance. It wouldn’t be a singular $70 000 bp starting the morphological lineage like the first pinstripe or spider. How many spiders, pinstripes or mojaves have been found in the wild since the first was captured and line bred?
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Gotcha, i figured you meant just breeding them in general, but can never be too safe 
best of luck with it!
I have multiple genes in my colony that folks have concerns about. I keep them strictly to my females so I can better mitigate their disposition.
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The number of mutations found in the wild in ball pythons exceeds any other species I can think off the top of my head by a good bit.
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