Ethics of Spiders and Spider Breeding

Makes sense, keeping potentially fatal genes gender locked ensures you never mix them by mistake. That a really good idea!

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I know other folks have dif approaches but for me I I prefer holding those genes in my gals. Spider, hgw, banana, even luecistic genes. I try to keep them focused in my females so I get that those genes expressed in a single clutch instead of in every clutch the male sires. Even with banana I started with 0.2 and will breed my own male bps for holdback. I don’t want to be producing 50% spiders, champagne, hgw, etc. Or all male maker bananas. Or 4-6 gene unidentifiable luecistic bps. Just choices I make for me and mine. I think the spider gene and Tneg albino are the genes most responsible for the boom in the trade from an outlier hobby to a mainstream legitimate business for any of us who dedicate ourselves to it. I can’t wait to see what other genes come from these amazing animals over the years

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Everything that you say will be taken with importance, we all have a right to be heard and all of our opinions are very valid no matter if we agree or disagree with some or all posting here, our say matters :heart:

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I have often said that Spider is just the opening play. This is a common tactic with the AR groups, they pick an easy target and then start adding on others through association. We saw it with the Burms in FL, it did not take long for it to go from just Burms to Burms + AfRocks + retics + anacondas + scrubs + tegus + …

IF the pressure from AR groups, and overzealous hobbyists, continues forward with Spider and we see an actual ban on the morph then the others you ask about will begin to fall behind it. And many others besides.
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Likewise, it does not, by default, make it a detriment to the species. Thus lies the founding idea of evolution (and no, I am not implying Spider is the next step in ball python evolution, just talking bigger picture)
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There are some forms of “dwarfism” that are perfectly viable and stable and have a normal lifespan.

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My Spider female that i bought last spring is doing remarkably well compared to what she was
when She came to me. The heat pack wasn’t taped to the foam very well. She was so stressed from the shipping and the heat pack falling down on Her, She was cork screwing and wobbling, and it was
scary. She was very defensive, striking at me all the time.
I gave Her time to settle in to Her new home. It took Her a while to get back to what I would call normal behavior.
She eats every meal, She hardly every gets defensive anymore, I handle Her with no problems now.
She is thriving and doing well. Better than what I thought she would. If you don’t want to own or breed Spiders then don’t. If you do then that is great. Everyone has their own opinion.
Hope everyone had a Great Christmas and a Happy New Year. May the year 2022 bring you a
worlds first and many happy healthy BP babies.

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I’m in the pro spider club, are there cases of severe wobble? Yes. Does that make the animal eat less, shed, poop, or pee with any issues? Of course not. It’s the uneducated people who saw a video of spider wobble by some other uneducated YouTuber who I’m sure only owns one ball python saying that spiders are bad. Spiders live happy healthy lives just like any other snake. If you keep spiders in tip top husbandry conditions I promise you that you will hardly see a wobble at all from them. It’s the uneducated people who really **** me off about the gene because they can make some stunning animals. Like others on here I tend to keep them as females and not males

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I completely agree and plus any animal can have issues it’s not just spiders I’ve personally seen more deformed non spider baby’s and failure to thrive than spider baby’s with severe wobble

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I can’t imagine what would have happened if people applied the logic they do to spiders to things like albinos when they were first being produced, which, iirc was sensitivity to light and bad eyesight? I feel like a lot of people nit pick any flaw they can find if they’re against breeding reptiles, spiders (and of course similar morphs with Neuro issues), just happen to have something very obvious, and the average layman is gonna look at it and go “That’s bad because it’s not normal”.

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