When I was buying my first ball python, I was in love with the bumblebee. Then I heard about this wobble thing and it scared me, no lie. After a lot of research of YouTube videos and reading material I decided it wasn’t as big of a deal as some people were making it out to be. Years later turns out I was 100% right. My girl gets really excited at feeding time and may do some crazy stuff; but other than that, shes just like the rest of them.
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Spiders are amazing animals
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I own my original bumblebee I got almost 5 years ago not a single problem she’s the entire reason I fell for ball pythons and also a rescue normal spider had to force feed and assist feed because she was a very neglected baby and she’s turned out fine as well zero problems
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In the beginning I was also worried about the spider gene because of all the bad publicity. But after seeing and holding more than ten spiders and seeing how they behave I can see that the difference is really not to much. The owners had them for years and all of of them where really looking very healthy. Ten is not really much but still, it shows something. So now I bought my first spider. She has a slight wobble when she is really excited during feeding. But when holding her you don’t see anything, not even a tilted head.
I have a champagne and yes, she has a a quit serious wobble. Not when she is flat on a surface but when you hold her up in the air it seems she really doesn’t know up an down. She has no problem eating but I will always give her a surface holding her because the wobble does look a liitle sad. But in general she is a more stress sensitive snake, or maybe she simply had more stress events in her life. But now about three months later she is getting lesser stressed, doesn’t try to bite anymore, loves food more and it looks the wobble is getting better, so it looks like there is a stress correlation, but you need more study to prove that. But finally every one has the right to make his or her own decision on this topic and I can understand both. I don’t even really know if I will breed her a lot in the future, or just, if everything goes well, keep one non-spider offspring as holdback and then just keep her as a pet. Time will tell.
But this also shows wobble is really not only a spider thing, there are more genes with a wobble or at least wobble lines. So things are not black and white. There are spider who show almost no wobble, and other genes who do wobble.
I’m at least very happy with my new spider ghi pastel fire girl. I really love the way she looks.
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Me personally I have one adult female bumblebee het clown in my collection. She belongs to a buddy of mine. I breed her for him since he is more of a boa guy and doesn’t have any males for her in his collection. But animals for my projects I will not purchase anything from a spider or pinstripe pairing. No real good reason for it other then just being neurotic. Not a fan of spider and think pinstripe is worse. Multiple times I’ve come across beautiful examples of genes I’ve wanted to work with but couldn’t bring myself to buy them because they were the result of a spider or pin pairing and that would bother me everytime I opened their tubs. But to each their own which makes this hobby so diverse and interesting.
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But do you not like them because of the pattern or because you are worried about the wobble? Or is there anything else you are neurotic about? Sounds a little like it’s because of the wobble but there is nothing wrong with pinstripe. It a perfectly healthy gene.
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Do you know of any other morphs that have the wobble? Just wondering because I want to know what I am buying in the future.
There are several. I myself have a champagne with a wobble. It’s in her even worst than my spider. It’s also in woma, hidden gene woma, super sable and powerball ( super spotnose). But if you consider breeding there are also combo’s you should be aware of because of tendency to get genetic defects. Some are really serious like the desert gene. As far is we know the females can really not give birth. If you pair them up the chance of her dying is really very big so almost no one is breeding them. Also super spider and spider champagne or super champagne is till now 100%. They either die in the egg or soon after birth, or don’t even lead to a fertile egg. Spider allele combo’s are in general not a good idea. Also I know that a lot of breeders avoid caramel albino because of kinking. For other genes and their known defects it’s most of the time not that conclusive. Some breeders made those combo’s for many times and never faced a problem and some had many with serious problems. So it’s up to the breeder to deside if he or she wants to try it and take the risk or play it fully save, for as far you can when reproducing living creatures in general. Nothing comes with 100% garantee. Because let’s be honest, it’s a huge miracle that two cells most of the time grow to a fully function creatures. The beautiful miracle of life.
Here is a link to website with all the know defect and some extra explanation
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Thank you so much this is super helpful!
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I believe it is unethical to breed a creature, not for quality of life but for it’s looks; it’s not right.
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Looks and quality of life are somewhat intertwined though. Certain dog breeds are affected by their looks which in turn affects their quality of life. For example, pugs and Bulldogs which are know to have breathing difficulties because of they weigh they are built. This isn’t to say that they aren’t great because they are it’s just to help make a point. I am in no way discriminating against Bulldogs or pugs lol
But the reason that Pugs or Bulldogs have trouble breathing is because of the shape of their faces and snouts. The ball python wobble is because of a issue in the neurological system that makes it hard for them to keep their head steady and making it hard for the animal to catch/eat its prey, the shape of the animal is still the same as any other ball python the only difference in looks is the pattern and color. (I’m not trying to start a argument or anything just trying to help 
)
But not being able to catch their prey is only in the very serious cases. That’s why there is so much controversy. If every spider had such a problems that they cannot find their food and really had difficulty thriving than I’m sure that most breeders would stop breeding them, but 99% are doing very well and show almost no signs and seem to have no problem eating, shedding, breeding. Infact, they are known to eat and breed very well. The fact that there are so many around prove that. The people who are so against spider are most of the times only showing the very terrible 1% and not the 99% who almost none or at least far lesser problems. Besides that, all arrows are now on spider but almost no one is talking about the other genes with a wobble.
Every spider has wobble in their genetic make up, but not all show it. I don’t know if that is also the case in like champagne. We know all spiders came from one snake with a spider pattern that was imported by NERD many years ago. So if the first one had it and all spiders come from that snake than all spider have it in their genetic make up. But what about champagne and the others? Did they also all come from one imported animal and did that first animal also had the symptoms. If that is the case than all of those morphs should also have it in their genes. But I never saw any data about that.
Also I’m curious on the effect of husbandry and stress on a wobble. My champagne has a quit serious wobble when I hold her, but shows none when I don’t hold her, but she is more sensitive for stress. She was very very defensive and easy to be scared but with that disappearing it seems the wobble is also getting lesser. I heard and saw more stories of people who claim it got lesser by changing enclosure and creating lesser stress. So if your snake has a serious wobble maybe it also good for you as his owner to test if you can do things to make the snake feel better and see what the result is on the wobble.
I think in general there is still a lot to investigate on this topic, and to see it positive, it is at least good that the discussion is going on and owners are informed about the wobble so they can make their own choice. But we have to be carefull in pointing on one gene and making it look like all of them have a terrible life, while there also other morphs that have it and often even spider don’t show it to much. Sometimes things are simply not black and white, sometimes things are in many shades of grey ( not referring to 50 shades …that a whole other topic for a non-reptile forum 
)
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I currently just don’t have enough information to make a 100% informed decision. I am on the fence about it. I won’t own any wobble morph animals myself unless as a rescue/rehome. I don’t boycott breeders of the gene though and I don’t support the banning of spiders/wobblers at this point in time. We need more knowledge.
I personally would love to see a real, actual study done by a good breeder/scientist. For the sake of science I support breeding a number of spider/other wobble snakes and comparing them in a real “study” setting. So for example, studying the effect of husbandry on the wobble. Using different setups and methods to test and observe how it effects the wobble in a group of individuals. Maybe start out with varying amounts of no-wobble, low wobble, moderate wobble, and severe wobble individuals, and make note of the changes to their severity when introduced to different setups. This would help bring real evidence to the “it’s all in the husbandry” debate. And other things like that.
Obviously those kinds of studies would take a lot of coordination and effort, but I think it would be beneficial in the long run so we can have secure, firm evidence to form our opinions on.
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I understand you being reluctant to buy one. In fact, I myself still have an internal debate about them. I’m also not planning on keeping many if them.But it’s good to keep an open mind and not only believe the horror stories.
But up to the husbandry and stress point…I just took my seriously wobbling Champagne out to hold her. She was very stressed in the beginning when I got her three months ago, always snapping at me, when holding her in the air if you hold her halfway her body she could not keep her head up and was really twisting and turning all sides like she has no clue what’s up and what’s down. Now three months later and a move recently to a lesser high enclosure this was the result today.
She managed to hold her head up for at least 10 minutes. Had almost no problem sniffing the terrarium in front of her and other places she wanted to snif at. got everything done she wanted to do. I was so proud of her. So for me this really proves to not just give up on a bad wobbler.
I’m not trying to influence anyone, but just wanted to share my experience and happyness 
I’m really happy about the progress she is making, because this was the first time she didn’t corkscrew. The snapping she already stopped after a month and hasn’t done that since then.
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I don’t like dogs, I’m a cat guy
Didn’t want a spider. Got a spider. Love my spider. No issues.
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Breeding an animal with unpredictable and non-removable neurological issues is wrong. Simple as that. Yes they’re pretty, the ones that are already here deserve love, but we shouldn’t be breeding more. Plenty of pretty snakes to work with that don’t have neurological disabilities.
Just cause you ate lead-based paint as a kid and were fine doesn’t mean everyone will be. Come on.
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