Nor in neurological anything
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I would agree Zoophagous. I canât agree with you on scaleless because if they were in the wild they could still survive and thrive, but I am strictly against spiders.
I believe the first spider morph imported into the US by NERD was a wild caught adult male.
So, a spider morph could also survive in the wild just fine, if that information is true.
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A scaleless BP is unlikely to survive well in the wild. Without scales to protect them (especially their bellies) they would likely die pretty quickly. Either they would injure themselves, or something else would injure them so severely they would die in the end (or they would get eaten by a bird that couldnât normally get through their scales easy). Along with them needing extra humidity that likely wouldnât be in their native range. They have to be kept in such a way as to baby them from potentially hurting themselves (no sharp or abrasive anything in their tanks). And the extra humidity or they donât shed right. It is like saying silkies (scaleless beardies) would survive in their native range, or any scaleless animal for that matter. They evolved scales to defend/protect themselves, if they donât have a defense factor in the wild, it wouldnât end pleasantly for them. There is a reason we havenât found scaleless animals in the wild.
Meanwhile, we know spiders would survive in the wild and do just fine. Since the original spider was an ADULT from the wild. A snake doesnât simply reach adulthood in the wild if it wasnât healthy or thriving. Nature does not pamper animals, and does not work like that.
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Adult scaleless animals of numerous species have been caught from the wild. While they undoubtedly have a fitness disadvantage, it is probably no more problematic than another morph Albino might have
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I have never heard of scaleless BPs being found in the wild. Some scaleless might do fine (like rat snakes since they arenât completely scaleless and have belly scales). From what I am aware of, a scaleless BP hasnât been found in the wild, and is the result of breeding scaleless heads together only. Same goes with silkies, as they need extremely specific care to survive in captivity, of which their native range would likely not support. Completely scaleless animals are ones that seem to have issues, whereas some that are only partially scaleless manage just fine. Rat snakes of various species are the only ones I can think of. They are more half scaleless since they have some amount of scales still.
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I did not say Scaleless balls, I said Scaleless of numerous species: Scaleless Nerodia, Scaleless death adder, Scaleless gopher snake, Scaleless Burm, Scaleless Crotalus, Scaleless hognose, Scaleless garter, Scaleless puff adder⌠All initially found in the wild, and some of which are from climates/biomes significantly more inimical than what balls find themselves in.
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I believe a user from this very forum found a scaless water snake while they were hiking and the animal had some decent size on him so it would indicate that the animal was doing somewhat well on itâs own considering its disadvantage.
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@ashleyraeanne actually scaleless species have been caught in the wild, consequently they can survive in the wild⌠but I would agree that they are more vulnerable to sharp and abrasive things.
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Personally, I would stay away from spiders until I can get the actual statistics of how common severe wobble is (I donât even own a BP yet), and how much husbandry affects it. I do think that severe wobble (corkscrewing etc.) probably does affect their lives in a negative way, but minor wobble doesnât.
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My only experience with spider is I bought a Super Pastel Vanilla, turned out to be killer bee and i saw him corkscrew around and it made me sad lol, so i sold him
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I have several spiders. They are beautiful and eat well. (researched, looked etc for about a year then jumped in) if I were to hold them up and dangle them, they might corkscrew but I donât dangle and they all seem fine. (the spider video on Clintâs Reptiles was the final information that decided me to take the plunge)
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Thereâs a lot of anecdotal evidence pointing towards spiders typically not having severe wobble as long as theyâre kept in a low stress environment and otherwise are given proper husbandry.
All of my spiders (I have around 11
individuals in my collection, including hatchlings I produced) typically donât show wobbles at all. Thereâs a couple individuals that will show more of a wobble then theyâre being held or during feeding, which of course is because both situations cause some degree of stress.
They otherwise do completely fine and act like any other ball python.
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Similarily I was influenced by GoHerping (his opinoin is the ethics of spiders and breeding them are wrong), however, I did watch Brian Barzckâs one, but I ultimately agree with Goherping.
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Hi @dracenhimitsu78 just so you know I have listened to both and ultimately it came down to my preference. I have done research Iâve found many people say the wobble isnât huge then some people say they can barely eat because they canât strike their food.
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yeah, thatâs why i removed my message. It didnât come across the way i meant it to
No problem! I understand your point of view.
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I was too, Go Herping was the first spider video I watched. I think Brianâs video was mostly drama. I would recommend Clintâs Reptiles, Olympus reptiles, and the one made by NERD to round out the different ideas. Balls to You also had interesting ideas and he is based in great Britain. I also took every chance I had to look at and hold spider ball pythons in person. It took me months to make up my mind about them.
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I have a big issue with both of those videos being used to sway someoneâs opinion on the matter.
I have no issues with either Brian or Alex as people, but they both did terrible jobs putting their points across and sat at either end of the scale.
Brian should have sat down and thought about the video and done it in a completely different manner to his daily blog format. He brushed off issues like they barely exist and didnât give the in depth knowledge he is more than capable of sharing. It was a click bate video rather than a actual educational one.
Alex should not have singled out a individual breeder solely for the YT revenue and went about trying to prove his point using his experience, with very very little actual experience under his belt. The animals he has all come from rehoming situations and are the absolute worst specimens to use as proof towards your point.
I would highly recommend watching other videos on the subject. As @xamier mentions, balls2u has a good video on the subject as do many other breeders.
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I would agree Brianâs video was sort of drama-ish
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