I’ve got a newbie Q, I hope you don’t mind. Are ASFs more prone to cannibalism than other feeder rodents? I have raised ordinary mice but have no experience with ASFs at all.
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They were still healthy and fussing around last night, so they survived at least 24 hours. I mixed in some 34% protein dog food with their 23% protein rat food once i saw they looked pregnant as i had read if there is a protein shortage, that can trigger the cannibalism. I was very worried about the first litter though haha, cant wait to see the fur start to come in 
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So far as ive read, they are pretty notorious for it if things arent right for them. Stess, environment, nutrition, etc. When everything is good, they are communal and will all participate in caring for the young, not just the actual mother, but when things are out of whack, good luck.
At least thats what i read. This is my first litter, @akmorphs has INFINITELY more experience than my google searches haha
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It’s a very well known fact that first time moms for ASFs will eat their first litter. The main reason this happens is because of stress. Stress though isn’t due to the environment or food for this first cycle. They are literally stressed they had babies (go figure, right?). Once they get it out of their system, they are fine to move forward with additional litters.
Females who continuously eat their litters will have a protein issue, and their diet will need to be adjusted. However, if they keep obliterating their litters after you’ve changed their diet and whatnot then it’s time to just cull the female. Those are just genetics you don’t want floating around.
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All I can say is that it’s a darn good thing humans who are stressed by producing babies don’t exhibit those cannibalistic tendencies. Goodness knows I found my first “litter” stressful! The next round was so much easier, with just one. Maybe the ASFs feel the same.
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I’d look through this thread if you haven’t already, it’s been a wealth of knowledge for myself and other users here.
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I want to stay very far away from the potential political rabbit hole on this one haha, but something i would be curious about is if things like postpartum depression had any kind of relevance. Yes its not canibalism, but it can lead to the destruction and neglect of offspring. Still a bit of a rabbit hole, but a curiosity none the less.
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Ive lurked many haha, im currently using a fairly large cage to keep stress down since they like climbing. They have 2 running wheels, and i put the food down at the top to keep them from… ruining it. So far they have all been happy enough.
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I am pretty sure with their sizes the ones i got are pretty young, but dont know if first time litter. Perhaps the breeder i got them from gave me already producing females since i made it clear i was starting a colony, in which case ill have to thank them for sparing me the trauma haha
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Glad to see your babies are still un-cannibalized.
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Uhhhhhhhhhh… soo… it has rapidly come to my attention… these bars wont hold baby rats in… oh no.
(Found one of the fuzzy babies on the floor near the cage, which is what sparked this eureka moment xD)
Time for penik…
Edit: the baby was OK and returned to its mother who quickly came and got her when i returned her to the mouth of the den.
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How do you supplement protein? Typically an animal (including cows) will eat birds or small animals to supplement protein for their developing young or if they have a weak diet. If you only gave rats a bowl of carrots every day as a staple diet, they would try to get their protein and other missing nutrients from a cage mate. (do not try) Mice and Rats require added protein during pregnancy and nursing but it is harder to find rat food with that much extra protein. Cooking eggs every day would be tedious and messy without a dining tub in the main set up. Also, some protein is a lot more potent than other protein. The same quantity of protein from beans (50 grams) is not as powerful as the same amount of protein found in Steak or Chicken (50 grams) so how do you supplement extra needed protein and what do you utilize to get consistently good results? My thought is to dehydrate beef and make unseasoned beef jerky sticks, has anyone tried this?
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I cant say its the best method, but it seems to work for me, their staple diet is mazuri mouse and rat food (23% protein) and i also have available to them crave dog food (30+% proteing) they eat both depending on their needs and so far no cannibalism
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So it appears I have been successful at starting a colony, they are all helping in caring for the young, there are at least 2 litters, but i think all 3 may have been born by now, there are multiple baby clusters with different aged babies
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The only time I had any cannibalism was when one of the cats got on top of the cage and was stressing the mom out while she was delivering. No first time mom problems.
We feed mazuri rat and mouse breeders formula along with doggy bag dog food from tractor supply. We give weekly treats dog biscuits, a wild bird seed mix, some freeze dried liver treats, mealworm blocks and other treats.
I had three colonies of 1:2 but I took down two because of aggression. I built one large colony of 2:8 and still have one of the 1:2. The large colony just started producing a little over a week ago and now there’s something like 35-45 babies in there.
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Good quality dog food (20%+ protein) supplemented with “flock party” dried mealworm/black soldier fly larvae (45%+) works very well for us. We also include a little mixed hay (like for rabbits) and fresh veggies when we change out bedding (weekly). Live crickets make a favorite treat and provide excitement and enrichment as the asf hunt them down.
Typically, the first litter of a new colony is at risk, after that we don’t usually have a problem. Habitual baby eaters get culled. Biters/agressives get culled. Runners and crazy jumpers get culled. Escapees get culled. I can reach into any of our tubs no problem no bites. When I separate the growouts, I can rake through the “fluff pile” with no worries. You get there by culling for behavior, hard.
10 breeding colonies of 1.3 to 1.5 provide enough offspring for us to feed 65+ snakes. A week. Adults and babies. We have to manage the growout asf tubs to provide juvenile sized food and adult sized food, as well as replacement colonies. Everyone wants to eat an asf. Even confirmed mousers among the ball pythons take them (2.3 switched over from what they were exclusively eating when we got them). If one of our snakes turns down asf, I know to check them. As a side note, all my BPs will still take f/t rat, none of them are “stuck” on asf, all babies we sell are regular f/t rat eaters before they go.
I haven’t seen definite research, but from experience based on feeding and handling asf vs rats/mice, I think the asf are higher protein and slightly lower fat content. The snakes seem healthier with better energy and colors and smaller and more completely digested feces (I think the fur is easier to digest). I wonder about the longer term health value for our boas and kings, can a higher protein smaller meal (compared to norway rat) help them grow better? We’ll see.
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Highly recommend mealworms. Our female is about to pop again. Literally had to feed off 2 other females since we were having way too many asfs, and they take forever to reach maturity, but I guarantee you she is already pregnant again.
We’ve fed a bunch of babies off already. We have 60 babies at one time. They will pop out babies every 21ish days.
I wean ours when they have both eyes open.
I just weaned the last 3 babies today. And she about to pop already
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Oh one other thing…. Don’t introduce another asf while she is pregnant or nursing she will kill it.
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Yeah, moms will stress eat. We had the exact same problem with our cats, until we moved the colonies to a secure room.
1.2 colonies didn’t work for us. The girls never get a break from the male, so they kill him, eventually. We found that 1.4 is a good ratio for our current tub size, but bigger floor space would support a larger colony. I personally wouldn’t risk less than a 1:3 ratio in a larger colony, I think the girls would decide to reduce the breeding stress. Our 1.4 colonies seem to be pretty low stress, they usually have 2 litters nursing and by the time the third is born, we’re pulling weans, so the moms are all getting a little break between litters and the nursing load isn’t too high on them so they keep a good body weight and condition.
Make sure to pull the weans, regularly, if the colony gets too crowded in the tub, the moms will start reducing the numbers. If you let the feed hopper go dry, even for a day, and there are lots of young, especially different ages, the moms will act to reduce the competition for food.
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