First one in the wild found... who's gonna be the first to produce one?

So I came across this herpetological study a little over a year ago &thought i would post it here as it’s been on my mind quite a bit since then. The species in question is Corallus Hortulana.

The study is here: https://www.researchgate.net/publication/359275273_First_record_of_leucism_in_the_polychromatic_Amazon_tree_boa_Corallus_hortulana_Serpentes_Boidae_of_South_America

Now I have been keeping &breeding this species for quite some time, around 20 years &I remember back in 2012 there was speculation that a company called GCR or Golden Coast Reptiles had produced the very first leucistic amazon but for some reason I either never got a good enough look at one (pics werent great in 2012) or just wasn’t convinced it was leucistic as it lacked a few of the main markers as blue eyes, pure white, ect. Here are some pics of that animal &some of its siblings, tell me what you think.
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This is the main one, but it seems to be more of a pink or see through color to me &looks to have black eyes.


This is the second one that they were still calling “leucistic”. Now i know that leucistic with patches is still indeed considered leucistic, &this animals eyes seem to have some cloudiness, but still not blue as I would expect.

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Then this one, a hypo sibling sporting the coloration of the second ones patches. Now i know that there are a lot of the hypos out there from this line, but i necer saw if these animals ended up surviving or what they may have looked like as adults as GCR is no longer an operating company. I know that Abby from Biofauna Exotics got a few of these hypos &was in the process of trying to produce leucistics but I never saw the outcome &any if she did produce them. Also she seems to have fallen off the face of the earth, I used to keep in contact with her quite often.

Either way, I have yet to see an adult animal like the one posted in the study &would love to see one or a line produced in captivity because this would just be amazing looking. I have one adult Black/Silver garden male who after this last shed a few days ago seems to have gone from silver/grey patterning to a bone white color which is one of my favourite things about amazons…


Where as most snakes tend to dull with age, amazons seem to brighten. For the most part, there are some that get more dull &obviously females turn very very dark once gravid &sometimes retain that darker coloration. All in all one of my favourite species of all time, along with other members of Corallus.

I also have been hearing some talk recently about a photo of a possible albino animal going around… maybe @brassmanreptiles can chime in I think he was one of the guys talking about it. But anyways story goes that an adult wild caught yellow &white animal came in &since noone has seen an albino there was speculation as to whether or not this is what an albino would actually look like. The animal was placed for sale on auction I believe &the animal ended up going to a private collector, not someone who actually breeds them so chances of the gene being reproduced are fairly slim unless he happens to buy another one that happens to be the opposite sex &houses them together resulting in an unplanned pairing. I recently stumbled across a picture i have seen before but never fully gave it thought, but it seems to be of a yellow &white animal &if this indeed is the picture that was seen, then this whole story is just made up because this picture is quite old &from a collection of wild photos taken by this photographer.

Anyways just thought I would share this beautiful finding &since these are a polymorphic species &no matter what combo of the parents, whether dull garden phase or bright colored phase you will get offspring in all types of colors with varying patterns or even a complete lack of patterns… you could find the next leucistic on your very first try!

Skòl,
MP3

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Very interesting, thanks for sharing! The first picture looks like it could be a blue-eyed leucistic, though it’s hard to tell from the picture if it has any pattern. Is the animal in the second picture a neonate? If so, that could explain the pinkish tint to it, as many pure white snakes seem to be born/hatched somewhat translucent, so they can look pinkish. The animal in the third picture reminds me of Super Fire ball pythons. White snake with yellow blotches and black eyes.

I don’t have a great understanding of genetics, so I’m definitely not qualified to say whether any of the snakes pictured are leucistic or not, but they’re definitely beautiful! I do know that some animals that are pure white with black eyes are called leucistic (BIs, ball pythons, etc.). No idea if that’s technically correct or not. :person_shrugging:

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If you are talking about the first picture in the thread, the one that is in the study i posted… yes that one is no doubt a blue eyed leucistic in the wild. The ones I was questioning are the three neonate pictures I posted after that first one (pics 2, 3 &4) those are supposedly the first “captive born” leucistics but only those neonate pictures have been posted of those animals &that was back in 2012.

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That was my first thought as well.

Thanks for sharing @emerican247!

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Fascinating, I love learning new stuff. I don’t work with Corallus though I do stalk their threads from time to time. I seem to recall some of the excitement about the GCR potential leucistic amazon back in the day (ah, those 2012 photobucket pics take me back!). Coming from corn snakes as I do, the pink translucency on a neonates doesn’t look odd at all to me. Does it prove leucism? No, but it doesn’t strike me as at all inconsistent for it.

If these were produced back in 2012, it seems like there would have been some more documentation about them since. Unless, I suppose, they all failed to thrive? Or maybe not, I don’t really know. I’m just guessing.

Interesting either way, thanks for sharing.

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Dang Miles, you have some killer stock sir. That last picture in your first post is insane, I could stare at those all day, it would be nice if someonecould produce that color. Looking forward to seeing your current babies on the way.

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Thank you, i have been working with this species for a long time &they are one of the coolest &most rewarding species to work with. A little heartbreaking at times but honestly they all are. Amazons are definitely a little hardier than some of their arboreal cousins. I am super excited at the progression of my gravid females but i don’t want to jynx anything as them being gravid is only about 40% of the way to babies. There are still a lot of factors that could occur. They could reabsorb their yolks, temperatures could drop really low &i might not be able to keep the pregnant females at the hot temps they like for baby development (although im sure i would do everything in my power to make sure that happened, hell i would start a fire in the middle of the room if i had to), the females could go full term &then spit out a bunch of slugs… both of the currently gravid females are virgins so im not too sure what could happen. I like to tell myself i’m not getting any babies at all so that way i’m super excited when i see little ones all of a sudden crawling around the cage trying to squeeze their way out of any little opening. But the polymorphic aspect of these animals is the most rewarding. One NEVER knows what the outcome of the babies are going to look like, especially on a first pairing. After a few you start to notice similarities &aspects of what each animal COULD produce &can kind of make a guideline from there but other than that… the next all white blue eyed leucistic could slide on out at any moment. Its more likely to happen with a pairing of hypo animals though, is my current understanding. Which neither of these females i currently am breeding are. Orange one “cheeto” might be, but im leaning toward orange calico. Thats a whole nother ballpark too, its hard to pinpoint what actual morphs they are or traits they have, as they easily could just be a type of patterning or scale coloration. I do know that the male i showed in that first post, the black &whitish silver one, is a proven breeder &supposedly he produced a few leopards in those pairings so that is something to look forward as leopards are AMAZONG


Amazon-Tree-Boa-Availability-and-Natural-Habitat

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Amazong=Amazing Amazon

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I know nothing about ATBs but those pictures make me want to go out and buy one! I am especially drawn to the in second photo of the last group! The head and the eyes on that one! Wow!

I certainly understand your earlier comment about the “boring” ball pythons! :joy::sunglasses:Especially after eyeing these Amazongs! :star_struck:

Seriously though, it’s nice to see a little variety once in awhile! :+1::blush: Totally awesome breeding!

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Both Dayton and Rory produced leucistics this season from the GCR stuff. Not all luecistics are perfectly patternless and blue eyed. The fire ball python is an example that’s been brought up, but there are a lot of different lucy combinations that have pigment and pattern.

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I meant patternless blue eyed leucistic like the picture of the one I posted in the wild. I am aware of the others, but I was referring to the one in the herpetological study. I want to see one of THOSE produced.

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Looking back it looks like Dayton did produce one with blue eyes, thats awesome!!! I don’t have instagram or facebook so I dont really see his recent posts. He is a good dude, I’ve hung out with him a few times. We live pretty close by eachother, maybe i will have to get my hands on a sibling at the next show in hillsboro :money_mouth_face::money_mouth_face::money_mouth_face:

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He actually posted a picture today with two all white blue eyed snakes. Don’t wait for Hillsboro man Puyallup this weekend lol. I’ll be there.

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(These snakes belong to and were produced by Dayton Croyden)

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Yeah i just saw these again last night after you posted, thats why I corrected my post. Puyallup is a little too far for me right now, I was planning on going but i have to much other stuff going on this weekend. Funny thing is i was born in Puyallup at good sam hospital, i have lots of family up there. Is dayton going to be vending at puyallup?

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I know how that goes. I haven’t checked, but he’s usually hanging around with Nick or Ryan.

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I will be watching for babies! :sunglasses::+1:

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Nick Mutton &Ryan Young?

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From P.O.S. im hoping on around 100 days out if everything goes well. Fingers crossed!

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Anything good at the Puyallup show?

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