Hey! I’ve decided to branch out and get myself a few leopard geckos and crested geckos.
I’m just looking to find out if they are what the sellers sold them to me as so that I’m sure of the genetics and what to expect when I do breed them in the future once they are all up to size.
I’ve added photos of them all with what they were sold to me as. Any help is very appreciated.
1 Mack snow
2 Tremper sunglow eclipse
3 Tremper sunglow
4 Red harlequin
7 Tricolour harlequin
Thank you in advance for any help you can provide.
I don’t have the experience with cresties to help in that regard, but my main impression of the leos is that they’re in poor condition. Definitely take them to the vet and have fecals done. If there’s a finance issue, take the fresh feces of all 3 geckos and mix them together (without urates) before handing it over to the vet. That way you’ll at least know if any of them have issues.
With leos it’s important to know genetic background, especially as there are now many ways to produce a given appearance, what with all the morphs there are now. I’ll do my best with the morphs, but there’s no way to know genotype (genetics) for sure based on phenotype (appearance) alone.
The first leo looks like a very sick Mack super snow. The second looks like a hypo albino. No way to know eclipse for sure, especially without pics of eyes. Third leo looks like a banded hypo albino/sunglow, also in very poor condition.
It’s not an uncommon practice for sketchy breeders to feed their geckos big meals before taking pics, to make them appear in better condition than they are. If you look at their tails, you can see they are emaciated. Make sure you quarantine them away from your other reptiles.
Those leopard geckos are in horrible shape. You should attempt to return them for a refund.
Thank you for your responses. I can see what you mean about the tails. They do seem thin. They seem okay in themselves. They’re all running around and seem active. Is it mainly the tails that show their condition?
I want them to do well so I’m going to take them to the vet and see what they say. Is there anything I can do in the mean time? Do you possibly think that they have been under fed by the breeder? I’m going to contact them and see what they say.
It was from a hobbyist breeder so I’m not sure if they’ll just say they’re my problem now.
So I’d like to do my best to get them to full health as best as I can.
They haven’t just been underfed by the breeder, they were likely starved by the breeder. The first gecko even has a pronounced spine. I would return them ASAP. I do not recommend breeding any of these animals. Get yourself breeding stock from a reputable breeder, not someone that can’t even care for their animals properly and probably don’t know the lineage. Also, #6 looks like it has a kinked tail. I have never seen a crestie have its tail with that many bends in it.
Tail thinness, ribs showing, signs of dehydration (wrinkly skin, sunken eyes). You can even see major muscle atrophy in the head of the first leo, a really bad sign. It looks like shavings on the foot on one of the leos, so make sure you get them away from any particulate substrate, especially since they need medical care and may have parasites. Be very careful about cleanliness and disinfection practices- don’t share equipment with these animals and your other reptiles, and be vigilant about washing your hands. Gloves would be ideal, as would only handling these guys after your other reptiles… When you go to the vet, make sure you bring fresh fecal samples. They definitely need to be screened for crypto, though I can’t remember how it’s tested for (swab or sample).
Until you can bring them to the vet, the best thing you could do for them would be to house them individually, under proper conditions, so you can keep track of food intake and elimination, as well as eliminate any potential scuffles. Leos do not benefit from communal housing, so it will lower their stress level. I’m not sure about cresties and communal living. Take a sec to review the caresheets of reputable breeders, reptile vets, and hobbyists (not caresheets from pet stores).
Such a cruel breeder is unlikely to care- you may need to take legal action. Document everything thoroughly, lots of photos, vet visit soon- and then report the breeder for animal cruelty, or have your vet do it.
Cresties hate living together, and are just as territorial as leos. They also tend to drop their tails when housed together. So far the only reptile I have found that benefits from communal housing is garter snakes. Everything else usually stresses from it.
I’ll definitely be getting in touch with them. The 3 leopard geckos were from the same person. I guess he rarely fed them and wasn’t interested in them anymore so barely bothered to feed them.
Is there any way that I can make sure that they put on some real weight in the mean time?
They are away from my other reptiles and I’ll keep it very clean to make sure that if they do have anything that it’s kept away.
I have Ball pythons and I’m already a bit of a clean freak with them and tend to disinfect my hands constantly when dealing with them.
They crested geckos are all separate from each other. 2 of them are up to size but I’m not going to put them together right now.
I want to make sure that I get these leopard geckos back to health. I’m disappointed that I’m now aware of the poor condition that they are in. But if I can’t return them I’ll definitely do everything I can to get them back to full health.
While many people feed mealworms a lot, they are actually a poor staple diet. Black soldier fly larvae, dubia roaches, and I believe silkworm larvae are the best to feed them. @mblaney can correct me if I am wrong.
That’s very responsible of you, that’s awesome!
I would not wait to take them to the vet- they should be seen in the next week. They are in really bad shape. Now that I look closer at those cresties, even I can tell they are also in bad shape, and I’m not as familiar with the species. In the meantime, don’t introduce a ton of food, especially high fat food. Animals that are starving and dehydrated can die if they suddenly get unrestricted access to water and food. Take it gradually, and stick to soft-bodied, healthy food items (small silk worms, very very small hornworms). @ashleyraeanne is totally right about the mealworms. If they won’t eat anything else, give them some, but don’t let them gorge. Make sure they are warm enough after eating as well. (They all have a a hiding spot in a hot area where temps are around ~90 F). Don’t leave uneaten prey insects loos in the cage- these leos are going to be extra weak about fending off injury from wandering bugs.
Thank you. The setups are set up perfectly. With my ball pythons I’m very aware of what to look for and signs of any issues. But with geckos, being new to them I’ve dropped the ball a bit. I’ll get to the vet ASAP and see what they say and contact the breeder and see what they have to say.
Part of me wants to return them, but part of me also doesn’t want them to have them back. They way I can do my best to look after them properly.
I’m going to get to the reptile shop and get some other types of food for them and see what they want to eat. And hopefully get them on the right track.
You will likely have to order the silkworms and hornworms, as well as black soldier fly larvae. I have never seen any of them available at pet stores (unless you actually have a specialist reptile shop and if you do I am jealous). @mblaney wax worms are soft bodied, but are fatty correct? I know I see those in pet stores sometimes.
I do have a specialist reptile shop near me. But with this covid19 I’m not sure what kind of stock they’ll have as I went there the other day and you can even enter and they serve you pretty much at the door. I’ll try them today and see what I can get hold of
yeah wax worms are very high in fat, not good as a diet staple generally, but they’re useful as treats or to get geckos to accept different prey items than usual. (Butterworms also are high in fat, but they have better calcium to phosphorus ratios than waxies.)
I was thinking soft-bodied would be a good idea as these guys probably have compromised GI systems, and may not be able to digest chitin very well (the hard insect exoskeleton). If you have a bunch of mealworms (or dubia or super worms), pick out the white ones that have just molted for them to eat- they will be more easy to digest because of their squishiness.
I’ve actually run across some hornworms are one of the major pet store chains, but i don’t really know if pet stores are open at the moment, as @morphanatics mentioned. Just make sure you only offer extra small hornworms if you go that route.
I order all of my leo food online, and it’s worked well for me most of the time (most online dealers are open). I’m not sure if it’s ok to give links here?
With the cresties, I know there are well balanced pre-formulated diets available, so hopefully their meals will be easier to prep by comparison.
#5 looks to be a basic Flame (red)
#6 may be a yellow & cream
#8 might be a partial tiger / yellow
Thank you everyone for your help. I could only get hold of wax works and crickets. I’ll try and get them feeding and help them out.
The breeder got back to me and said that he had purchased them from another breeder and that they were even thinner when he got them as they had just laid and they’ve bulked up a bit since. And that if any didn’t make it he would sort it. But that he expects them to be fine.
I’m kind of set on doing my best to look after them and I’m going to speak to a vet tomorrow.
@iamgroot thank you for the info on what you think they are. Hopefully the others are correct also lol.
I wouldn’t be surprised if the dude was lying tbh. I would have him cover the vet bills for sure. It doesn’t matter if they were not originally his, it was his responsibility to bulk them up and not sell animals that are in horrid condition. I highly doubt that first one could be any thinner without dying.
It seems you’ve gotten a lot of good advice about the leos, but I can help with the crested geckos. Geckos #4 and #8 are harlequins, and Gecko #7 is a tricolor harlequin (as you say). Gecko #6 is a flame, and Gecko #5 is a flame with some faint harlequin markings. For colors you will need to look at them when they are fully fired up to get a better sense. Gecko #8 is a male.
In terms of visible health issues:
Gecko #4 looks healthy from what I can see.
Gecko #5 has a lot of stuck shed that you should take care of ASAP. Put the gecko in a wet/humid container for half an hour or so and then use a damp Q-tip and, if necessary, tweezers to get all of that shed off. Then make sure you keep the humidity level up in the enclosure for a while to prevent any ongoing shedding problems. This one also looks very underweight to me.
Gecko #6 has a wavy tail, which indicates MBD. Give him/her extra calcium to prevent it getting worse. The skin looks wrinkly, which suggests dehydration, so keep the humidity up for this one as well. Make sure he gets a chance to lick up some water droplets when you mist.
Geckos #7 and #8 don’t have any obvious issues. It is hard to tell from the photos, but from the wrinkled bottom edge of their bellies I wonder if they are a little bit dehydrated as well. Again, it is hard to tell from the photos, but Gecko #8 might be a little underweight as well.
None of these issues are bad enough that any of these cresties would need to see a vet, though. A month or two of good nutrition (via a pre-formulated crested gecko diet from Pangea or Repashy) and proper humidity should fix everything except for the MBD. Hopefully the good nutrition plus some calcium supplement powder will at least stabilize the MBD and prevent it from deteriorating further.
It is bad to breed cresties(especially females) with MBD correct? I knew the tail wasn’t normal but wasn’t sure if it was kinking. Good to know that a wavy tail indicates MBD though.
Thank you for all the great advice. I’ve only had them a couple of days so hopefully i can get them all in a much better condition than when they were picked up.
All of the created geckos seem very active. Obviously the leopards geckos are the main concern but I’ll try my best with those. I also doubt that they were much thinner before.