It’s a generic name for all the lines of orange ghost like green ghost or butterscotch or one of the many other lines. Orange ghost is used because it’s the most recognized name but in truth the are all the exact same gene.
The person that produced mine is telling me they’re not compatible and that’s why he got out of them. He does not prefer to post on forums but said he’d answer messages if people have questions about them. So again I’m being told it isn’t… I really wish mine would have bred so I would have my own answers.
My orange ghost looks very different than my green ghost
As Shaun notes, they are all the same thing. As for whether Orange Ghost is actually “more orange”… All these different Hypo lines were established back in the hey-day of the morph craze when everyone was grabbing anything and everything that looked different and trying to make it their own. So someone decided that they Hypo “bush baby” they picked was more orange while someone else decided theirs was more yellow while someone else decided theirs was more butterscotch while someone else decided theirs was more peach while someone else decided theirs was more green while someone else decided they were just going to slap their name on theirs while someone else decided…
Reality is that they were most likely all being bred by the exporter from the same damn animals and were all probably siblings/half-siblings. This is why I use the generic catch all of “Hypo” for them, because I refuse to play the silly game when we know they are all the same
That sounds like an assumption. There most certainly can be multiple genes for hypomelanistic (desert ghost?), just like there are multiple albino genes. I understand that many are compatible. It’s been proven repeatedly that lines such as orange ghost is compatible with regular hypo. However, again, I’ve had people who have worked with them tell me over and over again that this particular one isn’t. I’m only just now, for the first time in 7 years, being told that it may be. Do we know who proved them compatible? Because I’ve got someone who worked with them for a years telling me they’re not. I’m not really sure why we won’t add it based on an assumption, even though most people believe it’s not and it visually is different enough that you can look at them and tell them apart.
If I’m wrong, I’m wrong. But after almost a decade of being told one thing by… Everyone I asked, I’m inclined to believe it isn’t unless I see a clutch proving otherwise, or something like that.
What makes what someone else told you not an assumption as well? What evidence do you have to prove it is indeed different? I’m all for adding genes that are indeed separate genes. But the consensus in the hobby is that the are all lines of the same hypo gene and generically labeled orange ghost.
To an extent I suppose my view is an assumption as well, but after years of being told by probably over a dozen people that they’re not compatible, as well as communicating with at least one person who’s personally worked with them (possibly more, but I don’t remember the names of all the people that talked to me about it over the years) and he tells me the same thing… It’s not like I just pulled it out of the blue 🤷 I’m not just saying “it’s compatible because most other hypo is compatible.” That forgets unrelated versions such as desert ghost.
That’s why I’m so firm on it. Because I’ve had many people tell me one thing, and only two now, after years, contradict it. Again, could be wrong. But many people, including people who have worked with the gene, telling me one thing is enough to at least put weight behind my assumption. I do plan to try to prove it myself. I have been trying for two years, but unfortunately my male and female don’t appreciate each other and I’ll have to wait until I can use my other girl next year. And hope he likes her Because honestly for years I believed that other people were wrong and they may be compatible. However as I paired them, the differences in appearance made me wonder if everyone else was right. I produced eggs this year (het gg x gg) and if I put them on MorphMarket , I want to put the babies under the correct category. They are absolutely not orange ghost and they will be visually different than regular ghost. Possibly even genetically different. So I would not feel comfortable putting them under ghost. Hence, this topic.
I’m not trying to discourage you but you will find way more than 12 people that will tell you it is the same thing. Here at MorphMarket we are trying to cut down on confusion and not acknowledging rehashes of old genes as new genes. So if your truly passionate that your line is different prove it out! Proving it out and documenting it out is the way you will get the gene considered a separate hypo gene.
“Hypomelanism” means “less than normal melanin”. Desert Ghost / Enhancer does have “less than normal melanin” but they’re unique in that it is reduced primarily in the body color undertones, leaving the pattern melanin contrast intact while also minimizing melanin leakage into adulthood. The existing lines of ghost “hypos” behave differently via reducing melanin in the pattern and body color with less resistance to leakage over time. They legitimately fall into different categories.
I know nothing of the various ghost lines and their proven compatibility but I think there should be one category of “ghost” with all the various lines of compatible single gene mutations with legitimately different bloodlines of ghost in a sub-category under that. You could click on “ghost” to see all the bloodlines of ghost in one search, or individually go to different bloodlines if desired separately. If they’re proven to be a different single gene mutation it should have its own category IMO.
I understand cutting down the confusion. I think that’s a good thing. I guess I’ll have to try again next year and prove it one way or another. This is the crazy thing about green ghost. No one can ever prove to me one way or another, it’s just a lot of he said she said. This is why I wanted to prove it myself, it just didn’t work out this year or last. Eventually I will be able to though. After being told so many times it’s not, I just went with it not being compatible to be safe (when it comes to what I plan to label my babies as). And I’m not going to label them the same as hypo until I’m positive.
I think that would not be a bad idea. A way to not clutter the main gene page, but include the proven compatible versions in case anyone wants something specific.
Keep us posted I would be interested in seeing if you can hash it out.
Yes sir. I don’t mean to be long-winded in my other posts, that’s just how I talk, I’m sorry.
Nothing to apologize for! And easy with that sir talk lol.
About 10 years ago I bought an adult male breeder BP from one of the old-timers in the industry. It was labeled as a “Ghost Mojave” and there was absolutely no reason to doubt that it those were the genetics. After I made the purchase, I went back to the guy’s table and asked him which line of ghost the animal was, and he said “orange.” I filed that information away but didn’t think much of it.
That male must have sired a dozen clutches for me over the years. I still have a few of the offspring and they are breeding adults now. The ones that I sold were sold as “Mojave het Ghost,” or “het Ghost,” or whatever. Nobody had a problem with it and in fact, nobody ever asked me the same question that I asked when I purchased the original male. I figured that everyone already knew that the lines were compatible.
Last year I started getting some grief from people over this. People would ask me what line of ghost my animal was. When I posted them for sale, I used the MM gene category “Ghost.” But when someone asked me the question, I always said “Orange Ghost” along with the information that it was what the seller told me and that I didn’t have any way to actually verify it…or know of a way that it even could be verified.
Seems to me that there are some folks out there that believe these are different genes. But nowadays I use the “Orange Ghost” gene category on MM when posting my animals because 1) I have never brought in another Ghost animal to my collection, and 2) I don’t want to be hassled further about this.
Personally I would have no problem buying a Ghost/Hypo from someone else and bringing it into my collection. I highly doubt that the genes would end up being incompatible.
With respect, how long have you been in the ball game and how many of the old-timers have you spoken with? When personal conversations with people like Ralph and Tracy and Greg and Ian get downgraded to “an assumption” I kind of get rankled…
Here is the thing, there was never a “regular Hypo”. All of these lines were called somthingorother Ghost until a handful of us started pushing the Hypo epithet to bring the ball hobby in to line with the rest of the herp hobby where the use of “Ghost” meant a combination morph of Hypo and Anery (or Axanthic).
If you had posted those pictures up without calling them GreenGhosts, I would have taken them as just any other Hypo.
The existing lines of Ghost “Hypo” are not hypomelanistic, they are hypopigmented. All of the pigmentation in them is reduced, not just the melanin.
In most cases you would probably be safe. That said, there is a line of Hypo that originated from GulfCoast Reptiles that proved to be incompatible and caused quite a bit of turmoil about a decade back. Additionally, the original “Blue Ghost” (not to be confused with the animal that popped up a couple years ago by the same name) was not compatible. Further, Greg had three different Hypo lines; G1, G2, and G3, that were not compatible with the “Orange Ghost” group and were also not compatible with one another.
So there are certainly some lines of non-compatible Hypo out there
Makes sense. I can’t really recall anyone using the full label “hypomelanistic” or “hypopigmented”, always just “ghost” or “hypo”, maybe I heard Justin K. call it “hypomelanistic” once, I assumed hypo was short for hypomelanism.
Oh, those that use “Hypo” are using it as shorthand for hypomelanistic. I just have not had the energy to wage that battle after all the other course corrections I have had to enact over the years LOL.
I got in a WC female adult “Green Ghost” back in around 2003. I bred her and then bred her back to her offspring and produced her genetic. I then bred the Green Ghost into the Orange Ghost line and they are not compatible.
So, Green Ghost is it’s own distinct morph that is not compatible with other lines of Ghost/Hypo. I have been producing visual Green Ghosts since around 2006 and have shipped them all over the world.
Thank you Corey, that is good information to have.
Based on this it seems there are/were multiple GreenGhost lineages (I know I rememeber seeing animals labeled Green pre-2003). However, if most of the Green in the hobby trace back to your stock, then we seem to have the clarity we need