my febal excuse- a rat was not eaten and stunk out the snake room, I left all the windows open and the same night my house heating failed. She was nearest to the windows and I guess her heating could not compensate the cold ambient overnight. Rack now moved away from the windows.
She is isolated and just on paper with hyper hygiene etc.
Youtube has any answer you like about fogging periods and how to, so I thought I would ask my trusted community. Opinions about any of this please ?
Edit: she is gravid, but she comes first.
Thanks for the link, I will read.
The vet strongly recommended fogging
Allegedly an ‘exotics specialist’. I will not name them.
Now I am not sure about their treatment recommendation they gave me, they just recommended in addition to fogging, Batril. Does anyone have any true and trusted specialist Vets in UK West sussex?
Edit: @erie-herps how do you know all the links ot every discussion>? Im glad you do though
In my panic to help her I made a few mistakes, Lesson learned, Don’t panic, Study first act later.
Hard not to rush when you want to protect.`
At least I didn’t fog.
I spent the money but at least I can use it to disinfect,
Don’t beat yourself up too bad, respiratory infections happen.
I would personally avoid fogging with F10. It’s a disinfectant and while it may work by proxy in certain cases, it’s not a what I see as a safe alternative to proper treatment. There are chemicals in it that are in the ammonia family, which nothing living should be inhaling. I’m guessing this practice hangs around because it’s a cheap option for treating RIs in small market animals like rabbits or chickens where their value is comparatively very low.
My suggestion would be having a culture done and treating for the specific ailment. It’s either bacterial, viral, or fungal and there isn’t really a swiss army knife solution to throw at it. Viral respiratory infections can’t really be treated directly, although it’s not uncommon to have a secondary infection present that is bacterial or fungal. Fungal and bacterial respiratory infections are treated using either antibacterial or anti-fungal specific agents.
Travis knows a lot more about it than I do and he touches on it in that thread that Riley linked.
Are you sure they didn’t recommend just a basic nebulizer treatment?
That would entail sterile saline in a medical unit to create that fog. Technically you can used a reptile fogger as well I suppose? But there be microbial buildup if not cleaned properly and so on. You don’t want to make things worse that way.
A nebulizer can also be used to infuse something like a gentamycin medication for inhalation. It’s very common with pneumonia patients in veterinary and human hospitals.
That said… there IS a specific f10 Antiseptic Solution formula for nebulization. But you should be receiving that solution from your vet. You do not want to use the wrong one and further injure a sick animal’s respiratory system.
I absolutely DO NOT recommend using the formula used by reptile enthusiasts in the past, that formula is only supposed to be used for disinfecting surfaces and rooms with a fogger. If your vet is worried about contamination of surfaces to other animals or reinfection, remove all the animals and fog the room with that solution.
I agree with @ballornothing on the culture. That is the only way to be sure you are treating with the right med without having to wait on a snake’s slow metabolism to tell you if it works.
Yes that would have been my preference, but they couldn’t get aa swab due to her slimy throught skin making it hard to pull and strength holding her mouth shut.
She is a tough old girl, hopefully a good thing.
No they advised just reptifog but yes with saline solution and F10 but F10sc
Yeah, that’s not good. You definitely need a new vet that actually specialize in exotics and know what they’re doing.
You can find some vets close to you here: Association of Reptile and Amphibian Veterinarians.
As mentioned multiple times, a swab is necessary to actually treat it. Otherwise you would be following a treatment plan that might or might not be doing anything, which is a waste and might cause problems.
I guess I just have a good memory, and I read a ton of discussions on here, so I can usually remember a relevant/useful thread and find it with the search function.
There’s a few different ones. F10SC is the one that was recommended in the past but is like a human huffing lysol. It should have never been one of the weird 5 minute craft hacks of the reptile or bird community.
F10sc = Surface cleaner
F10 Odour eliminator = fresh pine version of F10SC
F10scxd = cleaner-sanitizers with eXtra Detergent
F10 Sterilant = clean + rust inhibitor for instruments
F10 Antiseptic solution = Actual wound care
F10 aerosol foggers - only for rooms, not animals
F10 disinfectant aerosol - for quick surface cleans
F10CL avian or Reptile - cleaning for surfaces and targeting species specific pathogens
F10 Antiseptic is specifically used for wound cleaning/flushes and nebulization, but I wouldn’t try dosing/diluting the solution without a vet’s hand personally. I don’t even think you can technically order it without working in a major facility or vet hospital?
There’s also shampoos and hand sanitizers… I wouldn’t try nebulizing that either. lol
I don’t pay any attention to folklore husbandry, you tube videos on fixing sick reptiles, what the hobby at large is doing, etc. when it comes to reptile care. I draw my opinions and conclusions from either established science or experience. In looking at scientific papers I’ve only seen F10 Super Concentrate suggested for nebulization.
If you doodle around on google scholar with F10SC Nebulization as a search query, you’ll also find articles that point to it being unwise to use so the veterinary community isn’t of a single mind on the topic either.
you NEED to get her away from all snakes as this passes easily and kills.
I really don’t think a rat not eaten and stinking out the room would cause this.
I’ve had rats do the same here, gone in, in the morning and not been eating and stunk, not nice but also not an issue either. It happens to nearly everyone.
RI is serious if not caught quick, You need to get your other snakes checked also.
Unfortunately a lot about atm in the uk and a lot selling collections who have had it ‘but cleared up’ or have it and selling anyway and not telling others. Not something they should be doing and has caused many others to have this and kill off their snakes
I find that F10 fogging tends to be suggested a lot by small animal vets in the UK & Australia, for some reason. I’ve even seen it used on a televised program, but I would not advise using it. What you’re going to need is a second opinion from another vet. Ask for a culture & sensitivity test. That’ll help determine what caused the RI & what medications would be most appropriate to treat it. The ARAV site @erie-herps linked to will show you all the vets with reptile experience, so I’d start there. Your girl will likely need injectable or oral medication. I know London might be a bit of a jog, but I’ve heard good things about the Royal Veterinary College.
I have not read through all of this but I will say emphatically
NEVER FOG WITH F10
Period. End of discussion.
Doing so is basically the equivalent of locking yourself in a closet after you have filled it with the contents of a couple industrial cans of Lysol spray. You will cause more harm and damage than good
She was isolated immediately in a separate room, its on the OP. But I dont believe its as contagious as the plague if the snakes are in separate tubs. I had it years ago and it didn’t run through my collection with good hygiene and no mites to carry it.
What nswilkerson1 said. She got very cold because i left all the windows open ‘because of the stink’ then my house heating failed, could be something else but that’s the only thing I can think if.
Anyway, my question was about F10, I will not use it after the advice here.
I might still fog with saline though for hydration. what so people think about that?
Saline nebulization is great, but do keep an eye on her.
It helps keep all the ickness from congealing in her lungs, but at the same time snakes can’t really “cough” effectively enough to expel the excess buildup. It should break down over time, but if there’s too much mucus and her lungs are already having trouble it can lead to asphyxiation.
If at any time she seems stressed and thrashing her head or looking like she’s attempting to regurge, I would get in contact with the vet asap. It could have moved from a URI to more severe and pneumonia like urgency.
@armiyana, thanks i will try the saline. yes I have already contacted a vet, although they said they were exotic and reptile specialists, I doubt it, they couldn’t even get a swob or open her mouth, I had to do it and they still couldnt get a swob, and recommended F10, They did give me some batril which is better than nothing until I can find a true specialist and get a culture.
It looks like it wont develop into something worse today, She already has improved a lot on her own even before her first antibiotic dose which I am planning for tomorrow. her discharge is now almost unnoticeable and certainly she is not thrashing or struggling or gaping, she seems fairly normal today. She was very healthy before this and is a tough old bird.