If you could invent a morph (be it color, pattern, or both) what would it be?

You say the best comparison is with amniotes and then go on to ignore that Amniota, as a group, also includes all living reptiles. So if it is good for the goose/gander (avian amniote), why then is it not good for the ball python (reptilian amniote)?
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Let me see… Did I say “freshly laid ball python egg”?
:thinking:

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All I’m saying is that if you do it, I expect one of the babies for putting the idea in your head :joy:

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You didn’t, but ChesterHF discussed “injection of virus into eggs to transfect embryos.” That is not likely to work.

And my amniote comment is related to amniotes where viral-based transgenesis has actually been performed. Reptiles are very neglected by developmental geneticists - so we look to model systems where transgenesis has actually been performed (mammals and avians). So yes, I am aware that reptiles are amniotes.

Do I get one for saying GloPython first as well? Lol.

Any of the glofish colors would look so rad on a BEL. I’m worried expression can get covered by darker morphs. But BEL, albino, BlkEL and pieds might end up looking pretty sweet.

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I said it in my video with Dave LOL

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I was teasing Blakemeup for saying he expects one of the babies XD

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Given that there are a papers showing efficient transduction of chicken embryos earlier in development, it’s certainly possible and established that this can be done. I’m not saying that everyone could do it, but a sufficiently skilled person who has the tools and reagents? Absolutely

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Hilary covers it well here:

If the process is documented as successful in various species of egg-laying amniote then why should it be impossible in a different egg-laying amniote?

I will grant that it is not a one-to-one, but acting like the two are a universe apart simply because one is more neglected in the research field seems a little short-sighted to me

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Sure. But there are some major caveats. At egg lay, chicken embryos are at an extremely early stage of development (just a disc of cells). Since chicken eggs can be windowed, it is possible to access these early stage embryos relatively easily and precisely inject a viral vector. Comparable stages of ball python development occur before egg lay - and even with ultrasound or a surgical incision, it would be very difficult to precisely inject an early stage python embryo with a viral vector without compromising the integrity of the egg or embryo. Ball python eggs are pretty gigantic by the time fertilization happens, so its probably not sufficient to inject a viral vector into a random location in the egg.

Thousands of research labs have pushed transgenesis and gene editing methods forward in chick and mouse. But even with substantial expertise in these powerful model systems, it can take a lot of trial and error to implement similar approaches in reptiles. There is every reason to think that is possible to employ these technologies in snakes, and it might become quite easy at some point. All I am saying is that I think it will take more animals and more effort than one might expect, and there just aren’t many labs working with reptiles to help push these methods forward.

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It seems like I am coming across as being overly negative about the possibility of generating transgenic or gene editing snakes. I never said that it is “impossible!” I am very enthusiastic about the prospect of these types of modifications to understand gene function and reptiles. I’d also rather see hobbyists purchase captive bred transgenic reptiles than wild caught animals. Can these technologies work in snakes? Of course they can! But these methods are not likely to work well without investing a substantial amount of time and money. My opinion is based on my research lab’s experience developing CRISPR based gene editing in anoles. We already had a couple decades of experience generating transgenic and gene knockin/knockout mouse strains and several years of experience breeding anolis lizards before attempting to genetically modify anoles. It still took us a year and half of focused effort to get gene edited lizards, and we aren’t yet able to perform more sophisticated types of gene editing (homology directed repair to make precise edits). Eventually it may become super easy to make transgenic reptiles, but I really don’t think we are at that point yet.

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The impression I received from your replies (and yes, the internet is great for misinterpretation) was very much one of ‘never going to happen’. And from this reply, I get the impression that I may have been coming off on the opposite side of the pendulum with ‘I can do this in my basement tonight’, which certainly was not my intent.

I will absolutely agree that the technology is not there now, but I do believe it is perfectly possible to pull this off in one form or other. Will there be failures along the way? Of course, that is how science works. But science also stands on the shoulders of giants and continues to build off its earlier works. Seventy years ago, we did not even know what exactly we were dealing with. Yesterday I overloaded a 5Tb hard drive with sequence data. The HGP took a decade and $3,000,000,000 and was a national effort. Less than a two decades later, hospitals routinely run whole genomes for less than $1000.

What we never even thought possible yesterday becomes the every day of tomorrow

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I came upon this thread…my goodness, the intelligence and thoughtful discussions surrounding genetics on here is really mind blowing for me. I read every comment but I got lost trying to follow and understand. I’m intrigued by genetics but I honestly think that my brain is not wired to truly comprehend these concepts above an average knowledge base and understanding of basic concepts. I’m sad I can’t understand because the desire is there.

The purple ball python photoshopped by @cupcakesandrose is something that would be so cool
Aqua blue coloring on both lighter and darker morphs would probably be on my wishlist, along with a banana, or even piebald with aqua markings instead of the typical colorings in the pattern

I know iridescence on bps is noticeable in the right lighting on bp morphs; intensifying it like the rainbow snake colubrid or BRBs would be super cool…

And lastly, for me, it would be so cool to see a ball python with color manipulation abilities, whether it be for camouflage, or due to activity lever, stress, whatever. Just a snake with that ability…I believe the green tree python may have something similar to this trait, is that right? And, of course chameleons, anoles…but the existence of a ball python with this ability would be astounding!

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This girl. I would LOVE to have her!

https://www.morphmarket.com/us/c/reptiles/pythons/ball-pythons/81262

ETA: Yellow and red are my favorite colors, so she is perfect as is :smiling_face_with_three_hearts:

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Speaking as someone that does this stuff for a living I, sadly, find that too many in the hobby thing the stuff they learned in freshman biology is the sum total of all there is to know about genetics. That said, admitting your limited understanding is the first step to learning more. You absolutely CAN learn more about it though, so do not write yourself off as not being “wired” to learn it. I will not say it is easy, but it is possible. And once you learn it then you can suffer from an all new kind of “this makes my brain hurt” :rofl:
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Chondros do not have this, all they have is the very dramatic ontogenetic colour change from a red or yellow baby to the bright green adult.

However, many of the Candoia genus do fire up and down, sometimes dramatically. I posted an example of this over here:

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Totally fangirling over here because you replied to me :melting_face:
I’m really in awe of your vast knowledge that you bring to this platform, so thank you! Your kind words and encouragement gave me the confidence and desire to try harder to wrap my head around genetics. Now that I feel like it isn’t an impossible feat, I’m going to delve back into this with a positive attitude.
I was a research analyst and manager in my previous career for many years and excelled at it probably because I LOVE reading to gain understanding and soaking up information. Heck, that’s why I’m on here and not on social media. I’m passionate about ball pythons and spend at least an hour every night poking around on here. I love that I get to see loads of questions, tips, case studies and how-tos from beginners, experienced breeders, scientific experts and hobbyists. It helps me see things from more than just one vantage point and I use that info to help with the care of my snakes and increase my knowledge.
I share little condensed snippets with my 10-year-old daughter because she’s this little sponge that always wants to know more about her ball pythons. She’s got a pretty obvious entrepreneurial mindset and she’s currently laser-focused on having her own business in the ball python breeding industry. While I’m fully aware of the oversaturation of the market, I just do my best to encourage her to chase her dreams while trying to manage expectations, gently. I guess my best analogy would be that she’s driving the car and I’m supplying the gas and gps services, haha. It’s a great bonding experience, whether her interests change down the road or not. Either way, I’m always going to be here for her and for my snakes.
And WHOA, there you go blowing my mind, introducing me to Candoias! Here I go down that rabbit hole!
Thank you so much @t_h_wyman. You’re truly a gem.

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