Is Clown really an Incomplete Dominant Trait?

Pythons Ball Pythons
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Continuing from: What could be at play in this ball python?

I believe clown is inc-dom, so I think it’s the het clown you’re seeing

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Gonna third that it’s probably the het clown. I wouldn’t call it an inc dom, because most hets aren’t obvious, but sometimes hets change the look of a normal in subtle ways. Yours definitely has some distinctive markings!

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I think it’s inc-dom because I actually do notice it very consistently. It’s super subtle so I don’t think most people have picked it up like some people have with het pied. Also, recessive genes won’t ever change the pattern as het, that completely goes against the definition of recessive

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The only thing I have ever heard of a het clown changing visually is color. I don’t believe it because I have het clowns and some are dark and some are light. She looks like a normal het clown to me

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The color thing is more of a wishful thinking thing. Het clown will change the pattern, more so along the dorsal. What they’re pointing out is one of the phenotypes I see. Another one I see is very similar but with a fairly clean dorsal stripe. It can be super subtle but other times it can be very obvious, similar to YB. Leopard tends to bring it out really well

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I think everything you’re saying is wishful thinking as well lol

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It’s not when I can regularly pick out the clowns before I even see they are hets

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Wow that’s amazing! You must have years of experience hatching out plenty of het clown stuff

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It’s just like any other morph. You look at a lot of animals and you start to notice a trend

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no need for passive aggression :confused:

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Guys/gals can we keep the discussion civil please.
I would agree this is probably just a het clown. And I personally think clown is recessive.

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I’m with @phantom_hatchery on this one. I also believe Clown to be incdom.

I’d even say it’s more noticeable that it’s incdom than Piebald.
You have to remember that not all animals will look the same, even if carrying identical traits. Pied is a good example of this, we have 90% Whites and 10% Whites.

In het Clowns we will also see that 10% expression:

And the 90% expressions:

I’d put a lot of money on it that if you asked Kobylka or Ozzy to pick the 50 hets out of 100 animals they would hit nearly every one.

This is just my own observation though. Take it as you wish

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That would mean cryptic would also be incomplete dominant.

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This wouldn’t be that hard to do if one is a visual you have 50 percent chance to begin with. I’ve hatched quite a bit het clown stuff and I can say I personally can’t pick them and don’t believe anyone can. But I very well maybe wrong.

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I’m not sure that that’s necessarily the case. Cryptic could still be recessive but the heterozygous form of both are compatible as compound heterozygous mutations.

Incdom and recessive mean nothing to the genes themselves, they don’t care what label they are given, they are just genes. It’s only us on the outside that have gave visual and non visual traits names. Both hets are only taking up one spot each on the alleles.

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I don’t believe that’s possible. But once again I’m not a geneticist lol

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I don’t know that it’s possible, these are just thoughts I’ve had and I’m glad we’ve got the discussion rolling :sweat_smile:

@t_h_wyman @chesterhf am I way off with my thinking?

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Now I have to wait until they wake up to get to know if I’m right. Early bird no worm lol thanks Thomas! :heart_eyes_cat:

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You can have a Milk Snake instead.
Milk Snake No GIF by PBS KIDS

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these are awesome examples thank you!

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