Okay, I’m feeling like the kid who just can’t get the lesson, but would y’all mind weighing in on this? It looks to me like I’ve got LE Pied. The clutch is Beau x Linette’s 2025s. These babies are all Diffused and generally have stellar diffusion. Some have small areas of white on their head, a bit more than usual coming up on the sides on their throat on their neck, and/or very small amounts of white at the edge where their sides and belly meet.
Looking back at pics, I think Beau himself may have been visual LE. He’s been sold so I can’t reevaluate him in person. Beau had white on his head for ages until most of it was covered by Peach. (Does Peach cover Pied areas?? Don’t know if anyone knows.) I haven’t seen it obviously on Linette. They both trace back to some Walter Smith Diffused bloodlines, so Pied could logically be in their genes as Walter had some of the original Pied animals. I realize that there’s a tremendous range of expression from zero to loads of white. These are very low, but they’re not zero. I wasn’t expecting it so I didn’t see it. Now that I see it, I can’t unsee it. I try always to err on the side of caution in identification of unexpected traits. Accurate records and accurate labeling are very important to me. If I were advising someone else I’d say yes, Pied-sided. But I’m looking at my own, so
I’d appreciate some extra eyes. I’m going to load images for several animals, beginning with Beau. It’ll take me a bit.
Here are some of Beau and Linette’s 2025 babies. Linette is Hypo Peach Plasma het Caramel. I won’t list all the hets for the babies but will give visuals. They’re not in any particular order of expression.
Here’s Amite, female Plasma. Decent diffusion, small amount of white in places. These are all recent pics.
Faust, male Caramel Diffused. I am aware that Caramel is said to suppress Pied. Faust has small bits of white on his sides. Faust is also a challenge to photograph as he is one who moves almost constantly when he’s out, so I’ve only got one pic here.
O’Henry, Peach Diffused. The larger white spot on his forehead is a scale which seems a bit odd. It’s been that way since he hatched. That said, he also has a white “eyebrow” and small bits of white edging along his sides. These are becoming more Peach-y as he grows. He was super speedy as a wee baby so although one could see the white edging it was a challenge to get an image. The image with him hanging down through my fingers was from January. The rest are recent. He’s a calm little dude now, lol.
I keep getting logged out, so this is taking forever. Don’t know if that’s due to the strong storms in our area or what, but it’s frustrating. Anyway, here is Lanval. He’s certainly Peach, and I believe he’s Super Peach Hypo Plasma.
I keep getting logged out and this is taking forever. Don’t know if that is due to the strong storms in our area or what. I’ll add one more and stop for now.
There are others, but I’m going to stop with the photo overload for now. The gist is the same for all of them. Let me be clear that I’m not like, “Wow, look at these fabulous examples of Pied-Sided!” I just want to be accurate on what is or isn’t there. Thoughts welcome. All eyes welcome. Thank you for your patience.
I’ve told you elsewhere that I’m not very knowledgable about Pied. But it seems that it’s only present in very highly diffused corn, and it’s stark white, being a form of leucism.
I replied to this comment because this is the first one on the post that has jumped out to me as a maybe.
I also think the belly checker clearing aspect of Diffused can push white from the belly up the sides a bit, confusing things.
Thanks. He is really a gorgeous creature. His coloring is wonderful. And yes, I do know exactly what you mean about white seeming to be pushed up on some of the Diffused. That’s the way I’ve been looking at these until recently. Now I’m just confused .
Pied has such variable expression. High white, low white, no white. Parents’ expression isn’t totally predictive of offsprings’ expression. I’ve seen a lot of LE examples from visual Pied parents which look a lot like this bunch.
Thank you for the tag but I am of no help at all! With as many corns, well as many snakes actually, I should be more knowledgeable about morphs but I am more interested in the looks
However, @caryl, is Miss Fay related to any of these peaches? Just curious……
Yes, Miss Fay is related to all of these, Peaches and otherwise. She’s a half sister to them since Beau is her sire also. And your sweet Bexli is a full sister to these. (I thought you’d be interested even if you didn’t have info about Pied, since you have a sibling and half-sibling to these.)
Meant to add, the areas which are showing as white are becoming brighter and whiter. They were more translucent initially, as one would expect with whites. To me in person they’re becoming more noticeable than they were. Most of the babies in this clutch have lighter color schemes and there’s less contrast than would be the case with darker morphs.
Ah, Pied. The gene I avoided because it was so unpredictable.
I have several SK snakes that have very similar creep of the white onto the bottom of the scales like this. Having that one scale between the belly scutes and the rest of the animal appear white…I would have to say that alone is inconclusive. Mine aren’t diffused, so they can’t be pied.
While Beau does, in fact, look very LE to me on the neck, I’d be nervous to confidently say pied on any of the rest of these bellies off the bat. And I know how careful you like to be, so I’d recommend not listing them?
That said, you know my experience isn’t as long-term (yet) as the other people you’ve tagged, so feel free to disregard my comments. I’ll upload some pics as soon as I can for you to be able to compare my white creep vs yours.
Agreed, lol. I also avoided Pied because, heck there’s enough to work with already in refining a target look. I have zero intent of listing Pied as anything definite. I have wondered if I should mention it as a possibel possibility, that’s all. I’d been looking at listings on MM and honestly, there are a lot listed as LE Pied who have less than some of these. And then there’s the fact that these parents trace to the same bloodlines where Pied first popped up.
Agreed, that’s a thing for certain. Very typical for corns, in fact. Natalie, what’s the third animal you’ve got pictured? That one looks LE Pied to me.
I will dig back through some of the other pics. I still feel like the kid who can’t get the lesson. Lol
Third one pictured is Dot from Urban Croc Hunter. She’s amel SK stripe; het hypo, anery, and 50% ph lavender, caramel. No diffused that I’m aware of.
Sure wish there was some sort of board for tracking blood lines and making designations official. I’ve noticed snake breeding is sometimes a “claim it if you believe it” sport, even if the thing claimed makes no genetic sense and is definitely not there! Haha.
Although, in your case, Pied is legitimately confusing so I don’t dare fault you for claiming it as a possibility. If you think it’s legit (and it certainly seems possible), claim it!
Oh yeah. I forgot to add that she comes from Red Factor Iines, and has been selectively bred for strong reds. Visually, that's probably obvious, but I did forget to mention it when listing her genes. I know a lot of bloodreds were line bred for red as well, but I still doubt she has any diffused in her. I think Urban Croc would have claimed that.
I’m realizing as I type that if Starla does, indeed, lay her eggs, I may very well be in the same confusing pied boat as you are, @caryl. Starla is ghost tessera diffused, and the sire, Smokey, is SK motley diffused ghost; ph pied, stripe, and caramel. I told Paul I wasn’t going to let him collect pied, and didn’t intentionally do so, but I bought this pair early on, before I knew many diffused snakes could randomly have pied pop up in their offspring. So I guess we’ll see. When I look closely now, I think I see similar things on Starla that you’re seeing on Beau’s and Linette’s babies. I just never thought it counted as pied unless it went higher.
.
With as many corns, well as many snakes actually, I should be more knowledgeable about morphs but I am more interested in the looks 
