Yeah, a lawsuit threat means byebye client. They can’t continue seeing your pets if it’s going to be another potential issue.
I only found this post today, but saw someone who had a similar issue with a BP they purchased. The heart didn’t seem enlarged or anything in photos from the breeder, but a couple weeks later there it was and the vet was only able to pull blood from the ‘tumor’.
They were going to do an ultrasound to verify tumor vs heart but the snake passed suddenly not long after.
Same spot of the neck and everything.
TRN:
I’m so sorry for the loss but I know you did your best in the end. These are just some of the things that happen suddenly and snakes are so good at hiding any health issues until it’s too late.
If I had something important take this long, I definitely wouldn’t return to the vet in question. If they never deliver what you paid for, and don’t want to give a refund after being reported (not that reporting usually does much) then threatening to sue is the only step you can take after that. Unless you just want to accept effectively being scammed by a vet.
Yeah, I’ll likely just ask if they ever got results in or if not that I’d like a refund, cuz it was several hundred for the necropsy and everything… and I know they charged me for it because I have the itemized bill:
(And no I’m not worried about my address showing, it’s public info anyways since you can look my business up on Google and find it… and my business cards have my phone number)
When I called them in April to check up on it, they made us go through several different people before the last ones said they’d call me when they had results in… but I never received any call about it.
So small update, we just called again and apparently the report was sent out on the 1st of April. We just… never got any results shared with us for whatever reason.
And I guess the doc isn’t in and I have to talk to one of them directly to discuss the results… kinda dumb but eh, is what it is
To be fair, you didn’t follow up until now, either. Yes, they should have called you, but you’re the owner and ultimately it’s your money and responsibility to make sure that you get those results.
As for the having to talk to the doctor, there’s a reason for that. They’re the ones handling the case, they’re the ones with the knowledge to interpret the results and answer any questions you have. A veterinary technician isn’t going to have the ability to do that and the report is most likely clinical in nature, meaning anyone reading it without that knowledge base isn’t going to be able to interpret it as effectively.
Edited to add: This is not an attack on you, after re-reading I realized it sounds very blunt and I was not intending it that way. It’s just that there is a burden on owners to make sure to follow up, much like you would with a human doctor, and not just expect them to call back
If you read my previous posts I did say I called back in late April asking for updates on the results and was just given the runaround and told they would “call me back” — despite them already apparently having the results.
I kinda forgot about it until just recently, which is why I didn’t check in again. I’m a bit scatterbrained at times, I’d probably lose my head if it weren’t attached
They’re just now telling me this and that I have to speak to the doc — which is fine but why wasn’t I told that before?
Believe me, I’ve been there, too. I’m sorry my original post sounded accusatory, I didn’t mean it in that way (Autistic, I have a tendency to be very matter of fact, unfortunately). You’ve every right to be annoyed that they didn’t tell you in April when you called that they already had the results, especially since they promised a call back. A tip for next time, ask if you can get communication via email. Helps create more of a digital record of communications, and I find, at least for me, having physical reminders like that helps. I’d see if you can’t get a partial refund since they dropped the ball here. Unfortunately when dealing with Veterinary Teaching Hospitals, you tend to have to be a little more…Proactive, due to the rather chaotic nature of the facility itself, and the oft rotating staff.
If they have a feedback survey or email address for complaints, I’d contact and just recount your experience and ask that they come up with a better system to make sure they actually DO follow up with results, you can’t have been the only one to have this experience.
As for why they didn’t tell you about needing to speak to the doctor before, it’s possible you spoke to someone who was new or still learning, or they just failed to recall that fact. It’s one of the frustrating aspects of dealing with test results, unfortunately. Even my local clinic won’t just give me the information, always have to speak with the vet directly.
You’re fine! My fiancé and our boyfriend are both autistic, and I suspect I have it too — so I understand!
It honestly does seem like the clinic is rather disorganized at times, since they transferred my fiancé to the lab when the lab doesn’t deal with clients
Doesn’t surprise me that it’s more than likely due to the fact that it’s a teaching hospital and so there’s a lot of staff rotating as you said.
I do greatly prefer email/text over calling, but calling seems to be the only effective means of communication with them. I’ll have to look into it and see if they have any sort of email/survey I can submit to.
I applied for a job while in college (Pre-vet major) at our hospital and that was a real eye-opener as to how those places operate. They’re great for some things, but heaven forbid you want consistent communication, it’s a bit like herding cats.
From what I can gather, the lump was a sack full of fluid around the heart, and the heart was smaller than normal? But her passing was likely caused by some kind of heart disease.
Anyone with more knowledge on the specific diagnoses, please feel free to clarify!
My interpretation, though may also be incorrect… I’ve been out of the medical field for a bit.
Her passing was definitely due to a ongoing heart disease. The small size of the heart was most likely congenital, something she was born with. And that would most likely be why she had the issue with myocarditis that she did. A smaller heart can be weakened easily when stressed or when an infection happens.
The other small diagnosis in there seems to be that she was showing signs of a liver disease, but the findings were minimal when given the severity of the heart disease. The findings of the liver may actually be because of the heart failure.
The findings in the fat cells is an inflammatory process, most likely also brought on by the heart condition.
@noodlehaus gave a similar analysis, though it was through private message (I hope you don’t mind me copy/pasting it here, I think it’s good for everyone to see in case they may have a similar issue with their hoggies)
“Basically, your girl was possibly born with an irregular heart. This likely wasn’t an issue at first, but it’s possible she picked up an infection or parasite. That kicked her body into high gear, producing a lot of inflammation systemically. That inflammation in addition to the already small heart essentially overwhelmed her system. Her heart became fibrous and cells died, making it have to work even harder. The increase in blood pressure caused damage to the liver, and whatever was causing the inflammation also affected the fat in her body cavity.
So we have a small heart overwhelmed by inflammation. Struggling to pump, causing an increase in blood pressure and organ damage. This caused a buildup of fluid around the heart (pericardial effusion), in the lungs, and in the abdomen (acites). The fluid around the heart essentially strangulated it, which was likely what caused her to pass.”
Honestly I had the feeling that may have been the issue from the first post.
Someone I know had a ball python with a similar issue pass last year. Same area bump that came on slow enough that it was missed by the breeder and the new owner. I had a small hope it was an abscess from a rat bite maybe since I personally had seen something like that in a bp before.
Because of the heart, the infection doesn’t even need to be anything serious to cause the inflammation in the heart, even if the rest of her seemed fine.
I feel like in both cases feeding seemed to be a factor in suddenly causing symptoms to spiral of course because it put pressure on the already stressed heart, but neither of you would have known. It’s sadly just a part of nature and these animals as much as we love them hide the things we hope to catch sooner.
I’m glad it can give you some sense of closure to things.
Which is fair. Snake enclosures aren’t ever sterile despite our best efforts, so even something any other snake could easily fight off would have been an issue with her.
She ate very enthusiastically too, as most of my hognoses do.
It’s unfortunate, but at least now I have an understanding of what happened and others can now refer to this in the future.
I feel like I should chime in- definitely heart disease. I also agree that it was most likely congenital (born that way) given her age, though whether it was genetically or environmentally caused would be tough to determine. Regardless, I doubt that anything you did contributed to her problem and I also doubt that anything could have been done to significantly extend her lifespan. She was lucky to have such a caring owner.
It’s worth dropping her breeder a quick message to let them know that their lines may possibly be carrying genes with heart issues. A lot of reptile breeders extensively linebreed (inbreed), so hopefully the breeder will take it as an indication that diversification of their breeding stock might be really beneficial. It’s up to you if you feel up to it, many breeders react poorly when potential health issues in their stock are pointed out, they see it as an accusation instead of a heads-up they can benefit from.
Hey! Yeah, I did actually contact the breeder I got her from shortly after she had passed — he mentioned it sometimes randomly happens in hognoses and could have been a congenital disease. Which, her results proved that was likely the case.
I may still send him the information as a bit of closure anyways, and in case he has any others from the same line.
Her MorphMarket listing did mention she came from GeckosEtc. extreme red albino lines, though that was not the breeder I got her from.
I’m glad you finally got your snake’s full diagnostic information. Quietly fuming about why that was so hard, but good for you for being persistent. I am sure it’s at least a bit of a relief to know that there was nothing you missed nor did wrong, nor could you have changed the outcome. You really couldn’t have been a better keeper for this little one.
Yeah, I’m still annoyed that it was so difficult to get what I needed, but at the same time too simple to just email the medical records department and they just… gave it to me without any further questioning. Didn’t even respond to my email or anything I said either, just gave the paperwork
It’s absurd how hard getting info can be. It’s unfortunately true for human med as well. I have also found that the medical records department can be the best resource for getting info. Requesting office notes as well as formal records can sometimes shed additional light. Good info for everybody for the future. Thank you again for sharing.
