Need help ID'ing this clutch!

The sire is a Lesser Spider pos Leopard 50%Het Ghost paired to a Enchi Ghost. We wanted to see if he would prove out. She was a virgin & no other males were paired to her. Can someone PLEASE explain the Pinstripe combos!?!?

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I don’t see any pinstripe, they look like some type of leopard spider morph

My guesses are:

  1. Enchi
  2. Leopard
  3. ??
  4. Leopard spider
  5. Leopard spider

Keeping in mind of course that I’m terrible at this game.


My guesses.

  1. Leopard
  2. Leopard
  3. Leopard Spider
  4. Enchi Spider
  5. Enchi Leopard Spider
  1. enchi
  2. leopard
  3. enchi leopard spider
  4. pinstripe, not sure how this happened
  5. pinstripe, possibly with an additional gene

Not sure why you have pinstripes in this litter, but you definitely do. Both parents definitely do not have pinstripe. Maybe the female is not really a virgin and is retaining sperm. Also, it looks like the sire is not het orange hypo. You might want to repeat the breeding one more time, to get “clean” results (less possibility of a dual-sire clutch.) I also suspect that there may be one more gene at play in this clutch, but I’m not sure which. All of the hatchlings look a little odd except #4.


I agree this clutch is odd. There’s no way the female could not be a virgin as I bought her as a hatchling & raised her myself but, I have no how the Pinstripe looking combo’s got there lol. It’s definitely a headscratcher for sure!

Those are definitely pinstripes, not spiders.

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That’s weird. Do you own any snakes with pinstripe? Could you have mixed up your breeding?

What about parents to the snakes that you paired? Any pinstripe there?

This is exactly what my brain said until I reread this

Enchi Spiders have a “pinstripy” look to them, I’ve never seen it as strong as OPs though :thinking:. Definitely a odd one.

The parent to the male was a single gene Pinstripe but, he definitely doesn’t have Pinstripe in him. I’ve never seen a “low” expression Pinstripe or have it hid… I just don’t understand how it’s in there.

I’ve never hatched or seen enchi spiders that look That much like a Pinstripe combo. I do know what you mean though. It’s just confusing…

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The 3rd one to me definitely is a spinner. Spider and pinstripe. For sure pinstripes in the clutch.

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I’m thinking the 3rd one looks leopard enchi spider. But, you can see from the 1st 2 pics of the parents; there’s no Pinstripe in the pairing.

THe fourth and 5th have pinstripe as well. I may be wrong on the 3 it may be enchi spider. But you for sure have pinstripe in that clutch.

Maybe someone like @t_h_wyman could chime in on this with more real knowledge, but I wonder if it’s possible that the father is chimera. Or through some other mechanism has sex cells that inherited different dna than his skin cells?

Besides something like that or that you paired a pinstripe on accident one time and forgot about it I’m pretty stumped.

It’s also interesting/suspicious to note that it looks like you didn’t get any lessers. For 5 hatchlings that’s only a 3% chance. Sure it can happen and on its own doesn’t prove anything. But it’s another piece of data in this weird situation.

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It would be possible for the sire of this clutch to be paradox, but instead of it being visual, it could be that the gametes are a different genotype. It would be interesting to know what pairing he came out of. Mosaicism is strange but not entirely unheard of

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I agree completely on the Lesser front. Me & my wife were talking about that this morning looking at the babies. I paired a Cinnamon Yellowbelly to a Pastel Ultramel this year wanting Cinnamon Het’s & didn’t get a single Cinnamon out of the clutch so, it can happen. This whole thing has me stumped. I’ve never heard of an incomplete dominant “hiding” itself. I’m just hoping someone can give me some insight. I’ve even wondered that since “new” genes pop up in people’s collections; what’re the chances that an existing gene randomly popped up? I mean, nature doesn’t care about it being new or not, you know…

The fact that the father came from a Pinstripe pairing and the no Lesser babies make it even less likely that the pinstripe mutation just happened spontaneously to the father.

That’s what makes me doubt it could’ve happened but, I can’t figure out what’s going on. You can see that the dad obviously doesn’t have Pinstripe in him. Is it possible for the Pinstripe to be in him yet, not be visually expressive?

Chimerism may explain what is going on here. Chimerism is when an organism has cells with different genetic makeups from the fusion of two or more zygotes . If the zygote of the sire “lesser spider”, fused and absorbed a pinstripe clutch mate, then he could be visually a lesser spider with pinstripe sperm as well as his own. It’s obviously not a spontaneous de novo mutation in the sire, because he doesn’t show pinstripe, and there’s no way the same de novo mutation occurred in multiple offspring.

Does he have any evidence of visual paradoxing?


That’s cool, I only thought that happened visually with chimera though. No, he doesn’t have any visual paridoxing.