Here’s the major PROBLEM!!! I SEE in this “Hobby” here in Europe:
95% of the people I come across treat it NOT AS HOBBY, and never intended to do so in the first place. It’s supoosed to be an INCOME for them. That’s also the same 95% of the people who will dump these animals back onto the market 4-6 months later.
Love for the animal? Give me a break. When your sole montivation is money, how can there be love for the animal? 
So, when someone’s passion gets popular and other people start to take it on as a hobby that person tries to discourage others from participating?
I grew up with an absolute obsession with snakes and reptiles, but for various reasons (mostly my mom an ex-wives) I never owned snakes. Now, in my 40s, I have decided that I have the time, money and desire to start breeding. I have done A LOT of research and plan to do A LOT more before I start up my operation in another year or so…if I make it. The reason I say “if” is because the community just isn’t very friendly to newcomers and I am being discouraged constantly from other breeders.
My other passion in life is music, and I would never try and discourage anyone from playing because “they’ll never make it”, “it’ll never be anymore than a hobby “, because it’s expensive or any other reason. I want to share my love of music with everyone I meet and encourage them to get involved in any way possible. I know we’re talking about guitars vs. an animal’s life, but why not share your love, experience, know how and passion with others? Especially if they already show an interest in your passion.
My guess is it comes down to money. The few thousand or so independent breeders around the country, producing small numbers of animals to sale in their local market really drives down the price for the big guys selling here, to other larger breeders and even to some of the name brand pet stores.
As a former traveling musician I have met many different groups of people from all walks of life, but have never met a community with so much negativity and infighting as the reptile community and still I’m not discourage as I do this for me, not you.
“Can’t we all just get along” -Rodney King
It’s all about having a plan and long term goals. I’ve been nervous about breeding larger scale because you see what everyone says, but I started with a plan on paper with a timeline and breakdown of costs and work. I don’t think many people put that much effort into it, but still wonder why they don’t succeed… it takes work and perseverance; most businesses don’t expect to be profitable until at least year three to five.
I doubt the big breeders want new breeders to succeed but I’m sure they want them to try, because if they don’t who is gonna buy the 4000.00 snake they are selling. Ok that’s the cynical side of me. But there are alot of breeders that will answer questions to help you. But in the end if you are not gonna put time and money( lots of money) in buying quality snakes and supplies, you probably won’t succeed.Breeding your own food helps alot especially if you breed enough to sell some off to pay for other supplies. I only have 31 snakes right now but my week to week expenses are paid for from rats and any snakes I sell goes towards paying my initial investment. I dont to it to make alot of mone but it’s nice not to be spending alot of money too.
This is really a hobby. Hobbies attract wishful thinkers when money comes into play. I’ve been on the scene since before morphs were the main draw, though I’ve never bred anything intentionally. To this point, I have bred animals incidentally, meaning I have kept males and females of various species in enclosures without expectations, and wound up with eggs/offspring. It was always an exciting experience, but the joy of keeping these animals and observing them has always been the ultimate joy.
With ball pythons exploding in morph discoveries, combos proving themselves absolutely fascinating, it’s easy to see what rejuvenation there is to anyone’s imagination.
Corn snakes have seen a major uptick in interest owing much to scaleless, palmetto, pied-sideds, etc. I remember corn snakes being a dime a dozen with the familiar genes we all became quite used to seeing.
Ball pythons have proven very drastically to being quite diverse in moprhs and especially combos. Can any of you really predict what a GHI x Mojave would have turned out to look like at first?
Dream as much as you want. If you truly enjoy reptiles and their awesome characteristics, you will not fail. If you see dollar signs above all else, you’re here for the wrong reasons. It’s not rocket science. A job is about money. A hobby is about love.
Love always wins.
People must remember that your customers this year will become your competition in 2-3 years time - now for someone in it for the money this is something to SERIOUSLY consider, for others like myself who considers this a hobby - that is of little concern. In other words, I work for a living so my animals DON’T have to.
I have been keeping and breeding reptiles for over 30 years and consider myself to have some really exceptional animals in my collection. This didn’t happen overnight and this came about by purchasing maybe 2-3 animals per year - pairing these animals up and then purchasing some more animals. Example: I have been keeping Sumatran Pythons now for over 20 years and have managed to bring together some really wonderful animals which I consider from some of the best bloodlines and from the darkest of the dark animals - I have had to bide my time in sourcing the right animals but through this I am now able to produce some stunning youngsters - I have now gained a small following of fellow enthusiasts who know and appreciate the quality of the youngsters and I now have a small wait list for next season.
Royal Python wise I deliberately limited myself to a small number of genes and given the available space - a limit of 12-15 adults so again there is a great deal of thought that goes into purchases and pairings. I sometimes think large scale breeders loose this focus because they have too many animals.
The truth is that quality animals will always sell and I would rather be known for producing a handful of quality animals rather than 100s of mediocre animals.
My ethos is exceptional rather than acceptable in every aspect of keeping.
Something else to consider is that the popularity of the hobby has directly influenced the amount of equipment available to us - without this popularity (and morphs have had a significant part in this) the big manufacturers would not invest in research and bringing to market these new products and the whole community would be much worse off - I remember when I first started, heat was provided by an aquarium heater in a jam jar filled with water and light was provided by a normal household bulb.
So whether you keep snakes, tortoises or lizards the morph market has - like it or not - helped ‘normalise’ reptile keeping and improve the standards of keeping.
I dont discourage anyone from doing this. Something to remember is, people are constantly leaving and coming. Yes the next person that starts breeding becomes your next competition but they also become your next customer. Every year we have several people get a snake from us that is their first snake. Will they start breeding? Some probably will. I encourage it! Another thing to remember is, every year more kids are graduating high school and college and some of those people buy reptiles. This hobby is also GROWING and as time goes more and more people are realizing that snakes aren’t so bad after all and it sparks a passion in them to jump into this with all of us.
What an excellent post! I am not a breeder myself, but have noticed what can only be described as a massive boom of ball python breeders in the last three months alone! I find your questions and many of the answers to be really stimulating. Even though I don’t feel qualified to offer an opinion, it does seem to me as a strict consumer that the rise in popularity of this “hobby” has both its good and bad points–the good being the elimination of a few monopolies in the industry that I’ve noticed. The bad aspects, I think are obvious. Anyway, I’m glad that people are thinking about this. I for one, am glad that such beautiful and (hopefully and for the most part) healthy animals are available to people like me who, while not interested in breeding, have a great appreciation and love for the animals themselves.
Definitely agree 100% 
i personally am surprised how quickly the value of some morphs are decreasing. I think the reason they’re dropping so fast is not because of new people breeding, but because of breeders who offer morphs for slightly less than the competition, forcing the competition to lower their prices, and then the price spirals down. this can be discouraging as a small breeder who doesn’t have money to invest in newer, more popular morphs, and is left with morphs that have already been mass produced, but, ill breed what i love and not what will make the most money! like banana! which is my favorite gene
About this time of year, I look at my hatchling racks and all of the notes, labels, and masking tape stuck to the tubs, and I ask myself: my ball python season is over. what do I have to offer my customers?
After raising up breeding stock, feeding, cleaning, pairing, hatching, not screwing up incubation, not hitting the odds, and getting the damn things to take a meal, you get to a point where the only thing left to do is MARKET your product. And many reptile people (who have awesome animals) are TERRIBLE at this.
My point is that the people who are getting into this for the money are going to be disappointed. There is too much work involved and the payout is not guaranteed.
Another poster mentioned the “oversaturation” and “crashing” that has been happening to the market for the last 15 years. I’ve been doing this since 2003 and can confirm that no matter what the state of the market truly is, the people who claim that are always around. Pay them no mind. Work with what you like. Most prospective customers can smell your passion for these animals. But at the same time, use good business sense. Some morphs hold value, and some drop in in price drastically overnight.
I have been through so many life changes that have been reason enough to make me want to quit. Divorce, unemployed, moved, Natural disaster, Family issues, and the all time favorite, negative reactions and envy from fellow local breeders (so called friends). But the reason I started goes back to a childhood passion and curiosity I had towards reptiles. Besides the fact I find enjoyment of having a collection, I also look forward to each breeding season and unlocking something new to add . I don’t tend to hoard animals, and the by products will take time to find a new home. But for me this is a hobby that I can enjoy , and all hobbies have a large investment but even with that I have found it able to maintain itself with what I produce. Sure the days of actually making big money is gone, nor do I find myself worried about it. I enjoy going online , seeing other breeders make incredible examples and share their stories of success in any said project. Then I realize, those people I come across that try to break me down with everything they have with all their negativity can go pound sand for all I care. I am not in this for them, I am in this for me. And there will always be a place for a new owner that would be excited to be where I am, and I try to relay the same message that created my passion. Its not about the money, its not about the guy next to you , its about the passion of discovering and unlocking future potentials with a reptile that is so diverse that something new is always a season away. Like they said in the movie “Field of dreams, IF you build it he will come” .And they will keep coming as long as we continue to make the best of what this hobby has to offer.
Do a lot of breeders deal with BPs exclusively, if so why?
Is it because:
It’s the best market for buying and selling.
It fits my budget.
The BP’s demeanor, unlikely to bite me.
There is a large knowledge base for getting started.
I breed what I like, and I like BPs.
Has the largest variety of morphs……
There seems to be many emerging markets for other snakes.
What keeps you from jumping in?
Is it because:
It’s an unknown market for buying and selling.
It doesn’t fit my budget.
Bad demeanor, likely to bite me.
No knowledge base for getting started.
I breed what I like, and I like BPs.
Lack of morphs……
I am not a breeder……more of a consumer and have had a variety of snakes over the years, everything from mainland retics to garter snakes and everything in between. I’m getting closer and closer to retirement and I plan on breeding as a hobby in the future. Can’t imagine I will only breed one type……to many options out there for putting all my eggs in one basket. I plan to start with BPs and hognoses due to the knowledge base available, but I will treat them as a stepping stones. Comments and advice always welcomed! Thanks.
I keep a variety of snake, lizard and tortoise species - some common, some rare and some of which I am fortunate to breed or attempt breeding others I have no interest in breeding. I have never and will never be a one species keeper.
Snake wise I keep Angolan, Sumatran, Green Tree and Royal Pythons (although I am only working with Toffee, Tri Stripe, Reduced Pattern and Desert Ghost - the next and final morph will be the addition of a Black Axanthic female next year). In the future I hope to keep Eastern Indigo, Diamond and Boelens Pythons simply from an interest point of view with no real intention of breeding.
Nothing annoys me more than keepers of a single species who say they are in it for the animals yet seem to follow the trends within the hobby - rhetorical question but are you really an enthusiast or in it for financial gain?
To me while what got me in it were Pieds it’s about colors and patterns, genetics and the fact that there is something for everyone, however next 5 the year plan is to strictly work with pieds and slowly move all my other projects out because that’s where my true love lies.
I never just bred BP within a year of breeding BP I started breeding Honduran Milksnakes and have always work with at least 4 different species at the time as well as other reptiles.
Now it is down to Albino Darwins, Hognose, Sand Boas and BP (BP being the bulk of my collection) but there are also animals I would not mind owning but not from the breeding standpoint just like I own some expensive geckos that are pets only, so the price tag of the animal in my house or it’s earning potential do not always influence whether the animal will be something I breed or keep as a pet.
Who says you can’t be both? I started as a preteen, I am in my 50’s now and have never profited from it……but going forward it would be nice to have a small endeavor that supports its self financially and will keep me entertained. Yes, I said entertained.….I find reptiles entertaining and thought-provoking!
I’m experiencing cognitive desistance with this statement. I like diversity and retreat from trends, but I’m more likely to purchase animals from someone who specializes in the species/subspecies or gene that I’m interested in. Think of mammal breeders. Dog, cat and horse breeders, just to name a few, usually work with a specific breed. There is a lot to be said for someone who specializes in one thing…………it’s just not for me.
Ive been doing so much breeding research in the last year or more. I see so many cool amazing snakes and I think to myself it’d be cool to have that.
I started growing my collection and breeding solely to be creative, what can I create? Can I create my dream combos myself? any animals I sell simply go towards the constant investing I am doing to get further and make these living pieces of art.
And every animal I own has a completely different personality than the last, they bring me such joy learning about them and watching them grow. I don’t see a problem with breeders if they breed for similar reasons. its about love and fascination with a wonderful species
I am new to the Hobby and have just purchased my first 3 snakes. I fell in love with the BP’s because of the color verity, docile nature, and easy care for the animals. I do plan on hobby breeding in the future. This is due to my research on owning a PET BP several years ago and discovering a few particular morphs that struck my fancy. At the time these morphs were hard to come by and had high price tags for what I wanted to pay for a pet. After learning some about how the genetics of the animals work and how long it takes to breed the exact animal I wanted, I’ve determined that I’m willing to wait 10-12 years for that special “pet.”
There is something to be said about working toward your reward, verses buying it outright. Sure I could drop a few grand on the snake of my dreams and a fantastic enclosure - but I would have no pride in the animal. I’ve always worked for what I had or wanted, so why should getting my dream snake be any different? Also, I don’t have the $$$ to just buy the snake I want.
I know that I can (eventually) produce the exact animal I want and have some pretty cool and interesting experiences along the way. Sure, maybe along the way the hobby will consume me and become my full time job, maybe not. I have a passion for animals and I want to share that with others. By producing my own snakes I can teach others about this passion and get them started on the right track from the beginning - whether the snakes I produce are pets, or breeding projects.
To me it doesn’t matter to me if I sell my snakes at $250 or $2,500, the monetary value of the animal is not the main focus. Producing healthy, quality animals along the road to my perfect snake is my responsibility; and I need to treat every animal I produce like it is the perfect snake - because it is. maybe not for me, maybe not for my purposes, but it is right for someone else, or some other purpose.
I feel that to keep this business alive an well we all need to take responsibility for the animals we produce. Yeah, there are always going to be people that enter this hobby looking to make a quick buck, and their product quality suffers for it. It then become our job to educate and encourage the new people (like myself) to jump into this hobby the RIGHT way.
I think I got lucky, I did my own, unbiased, multi-sourced, extensive research about the product before purchasing my first model and diving into the market. And I’m not buying ready to breed animals either. There is no end to learning, and I know I don’t know nearly enough to consider myself a source of information to new/other hobbyists - yet. but by growing with the animals i have obtained, and having a good solid foundation to build upon, I’m confident in my ability to start something successful.
We should always be encouraging people to join the hobby - not turn away from it.
As long as the new person/s are well educated, there is nothing wrong with hobby-breeders that produce small amounts of snakes every year.