Over saturation in the BP market?

Pythons Ball Pythons
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I keep a variety of snake, lizard and tortoise species - some common, some rare and some of which I am fortunate to breed or attempt breeding others I have no interest in breeding. I have never and will never be a one species keeper.

Snake wise I keep Angolan, Sumatran, Green Tree and Royal Pythons (although I am only working with Toffee, Tri Stripe, Reduced Pattern and Desert Ghost - the next and final morph will be the addition of a Black Axanthic female next year). In the future I hope to keep Eastern Indigo, Diamond and Boelens Pythons simply from an interest point of view with no real intention of breeding.

Nothing annoys me more than keepers of a single species who say they are in it for the animals yet seem to follow the trends within the hobby - rhetorical question but are you really an enthusiast or in it for financial gain?

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To me while what got me in it were Pieds it’s about colors and patterns, genetics and the fact that there is something for everyone, however next 5 the year plan is to strictly work with pieds and slowly move all my other projects out because that’s where my true love lies.

I never just bred BP within a year of breeding BP I started breeding Honduran Milksnakes and have always work with at least 4 different species at the time as well as other reptiles.

Now it is down to Albino Darwins, Hognose, Sand Boas and BP (BP being the bulk of my collection) but there are also animals I would not mind owning but not from the breeding standpoint just like I own some expensive geckos that are pets only, so the price tag of the animal in my house or it’s earning potential do not always influence whether the animal will be something I breed or keep as a pet.

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Who says you can’t be both? I started as a preteen, I am in my 50’s now and have never profited from it……but going forward it would be nice to have a small endeavor that supports its self financially and will keep me entertained. Yes, I said entertained.….I find reptiles entertaining and thought-provoking!

I’m experiencing cognitive desistance with this statement. I like diversity and retreat from trends, but I’m more likely to purchase animals from someone who specializes in the species/subspecies or gene that I’m interested in. Think of mammal breeders. Dog, cat and horse breeders, just to name a few, usually work with a specific breed. There is a lot to be said for someone who specializes in one thing…………it’s just not for me.

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Ive been doing so much breeding research in the last year or more. I see so many cool amazing snakes and I think to myself it’d be cool to have that.
I started growing my collection and breeding solely to be creative, what can I create? Can I create my dream combos myself? any animals I sell simply go towards the constant investing I am doing to get further and make these living pieces of art.
And every animal I own has a completely different personality than the last, they bring me such joy learning about them and watching them grow. I don’t see a problem with breeders if they breed for similar reasons. its about love and fascination with a wonderful species

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I am new to the Hobby and have just purchased my first 3 snakes. I fell in love with the BP’s because of the color verity, docile nature, and easy care for the animals. I do plan on hobby breeding in the future. This is due to my research on owning a PET BP several years ago and discovering a few particular morphs that struck my fancy. At the time these morphs were hard to come by and had high price tags for what I wanted to pay for a pet. After learning some about how the genetics of the animals work and how long it takes to breed the exact animal I wanted, I’ve determined that I’m willing to wait 10-12 years for that special “pet.”

There is something to be said about working toward your reward, verses buying it outright. Sure I could drop a few grand on the snake of my dreams and a fantastic enclosure - but I would have no pride in the animal. I’ve always worked for what I had or wanted, so why should getting my dream snake be any different? Also, I don’t have the $$$ to just buy the snake I want.

I know that I can (eventually) produce the exact animal I want and have some pretty cool and interesting experiences along the way. Sure, maybe along the way the hobby will consume me and become my full time job, maybe not. I have a passion for animals and I want to share that with others. By producing my own snakes I can teach others about this passion and get them started on the right track from the beginning - whether the snakes I produce are pets, or breeding projects.

To me it doesn’t matter to me if I sell my snakes at $250 or $2,500, the monetary value of the animal is not the main focus. Producing healthy, quality animals along the road to my perfect snake is my responsibility; and I need to treat every animal I produce like it is the perfect snake - because it is. maybe not for me, maybe not for my purposes, but it is right for someone else, or some other purpose.

I feel that to keep this business alive an well we all need to take responsibility for the animals we produce. Yeah, there are always going to be people that enter this hobby looking to make a quick buck, and their product quality suffers for it. It then become our job to educate and encourage the new people (like myself) to jump into this hobby the RIGHT way.

I think I got lucky, I did my own, unbiased, multi-sourced, extensive research about the product before purchasing my first model and diving into the market. And I’m not buying ready to breed animals either. There is no end to learning, and I know I don’t know nearly enough to consider myself a source of information to new/other hobbyists - yet. but by growing with the animals i have obtained, and having a good solid foundation to build upon, I’m confident in my ability to start something successful.

We should always be encouraging people to join the hobby - not turn away from it.

As long as the new person/s are well educated, there is nothing wrong with hobby-breeders that produce small amounts of snakes every year.

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Exactly! I have had a love for reptiles since I was a kid and now that I am moved out, this hobby (more like passion) is able to grow even further! I have dabbled on the idea of breeding and its not to be competitive. I want to breed because the idea of growing my collection with some amazing animals that I put so much time, effort, money, and commitment into. My snakes and reptiles will always be my babies and I will never put a dollar signs in front of my pets health and happiness.

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Funny, every late august /early september when business drops to its yearly low, I hear harbingers of the apocalypse in one way or another. (Not saying you are one of them, but it’s funny it’s always around this time of year that posts like this pop up)

Sales will pick up in the next few months and we will have in influx of people getting into it again, only for a lot of people to dump their collections next august/september when the “market is crashed” again :slight_smile:

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I love seeing people getting into the hobby and trying to breed reptiles. If somebody were to breed something like Mojave to a Normal, I’m 100% for it! Everybody here knows that the first time you hatch eggs, you want something cooler next time. It’s good for our hobby.

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A post was merged into an existing topic: Ability of communities and individuals to welcome new hobbyists

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I love that morph as well… beautiful snakes

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A quick little reminder regarding the topic at hand which is “Market Saturation”

Let focus on a healthy discussion regarding the market saturation rather than unrelated negative issues.

Therefore in this effort I have split the conversation, you can now participate regarding how welcoming people are to new hobbyist here Ability of communities and individuals to welcome new hobbyists

Thanks

  • Don’t post no-content replies.
  • Don’t divert a topic by changing it midstream.

Guidelines

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On an added note: While I realize a lot of people are in it for the passion, and not the money. Or so they say. Its pretty much impossible to say you’re not in it for any kind of money. Ok, so most breeders raise their own feeders. So that’s less money itself. But the ones that don’t… The snakes can’t feed themselves. Those that are using substrates, they’re not free. Buying more racks isn’t free. What I’m getting at is, unless you have a money tree in your backyard, you’re in it for some kind of money. Even if you’re putting every penny back into your snakes. Some sell at inflated prices. But I’m not saying nothing about that. People that want to be proud of what they produced, have every right to be. Point is, saying your in it for 100% passion, and 0% money is a lie. Its more like 99%-1%, at best.

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That’s definitely true. There’s definitely a money aspect involved, as you gotta be able to purchase feeders, equipment, and sometimes even more snakes for breeding projects.

I think it’s more of the sense that people get into it just because they think they’ll get rich off of it quickly. Unfortunately I feel like those are also the people that would burn out quickly. Either it’s the waiting game that gets them, or sometimes they give up because something goes wrong (female slugs out, failed eggs in the incubator, etc.)

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As someone who has been keeping and breeding reptiles for over 17 years I have seen more come and go breeders than stick to it in the rough times breeders. Even bigger names have dropped the ball (pythons and the literal ball). I’ve had people tell me I’m lying about how long I’ve been in the hobby because they have never heard of me. I’m not about internet fame, not about big sales, I’m about quality pets and educating people about how great reptiles are as pets so we keep our right to have them. I’ve sold my share of normals knowing they’d feed cobras. Everything has an ebb and flow. You roll with it or move on.

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Most people don’t remember the days of hundreds of thousands of wild sourced Ball Pythons being imported regularly for the pet trade. This is back when Ball Pythons were less popular as pets than they are now. Now, thankfully, most are captive bred. And while it may seem like there’s a lot to choose from on morph market, the demand is still in excess of supply.

The breeder direct to customer market, however, will always have a large subset of breeders that have unrealistic expectations of the selling process. I’ve been breeding reptiles for 834 years and wether the markets good or bad, there are always people blaming the market for reality differing from their delusions.

On greed- the only people that I know that have had long term financial success in this industry are the ones that care the most about the animals that they work with. If you see someone doing better than you, they probably like snakes more than you :grin:

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It’s all a cycle, just look at cornsnakes and kingsnakes. Market started higher, then averaged out, then tanked! Mexican black kingsnakes were $40 a baby I was buying one every time I saw one at a show or only. Now 15+ years later they are $200-$300…huh?

It’s a cycle, eventually more older breeders will retire. Young ones will rise up and in some cases it will be a fad and people will lose interest except for the serious keepers. Again look at the colubrid market, it was once saturated. Now breeders like SMR, Ultimate Cornsnakes, etc… have retired or sold off out of the market.

If your a long term keeper you’ll be here and if not than the best of luck!

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wow kyle i had no idea you were that old, looking good there methuselah. lmao sorry i couldn’t help it

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Well said!! I am pretty new to this as well. I am starting out to further my enjoyment of reptiles, I’m basically obsessed lol. I wish you well and good luck to you!!

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An endless cycle. Reminds me of the Netflix show “Dark”. :hushed:

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What you think guys about the ball python market? Is in crash or not? Is in up or down in your opinion?