Exactly! I have had a love for reptiles since I was a kid and now that I am moved out, this hobby (more like passion) is able to grow even further! I have dabbled on the idea of breeding and its not to be competitive. I want to breed because the idea of growing my collection with some amazing animals that I put so much time, effort, money, and commitment into. My snakes and reptiles will always be my babies and I will never put a dollar signs in front of my pets health and happiness.
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Funny, every late august /early september when business drops to its yearly low, I hear harbingers of the apocalypse in one way or another. (Not saying you are one of them, but it’s funny it’s always around this time of year that posts like this pop up)
Sales will pick up in the next few months and we will have in influx of people getting into it again, only for a lot of people to dump their collections next august/september when the “market is crashed” again 
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I love seeing people getting into the hobby and trying to breed reptiles. If somebody were to breed something like Mojave to a Normal, I’m 100% for it! Everybody here knows that the first time you hatch eggs, you want something cooler next time. It’s good for our hobby.
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A post was merged into an existing topic: Ability of communities and individuals to welcome new hobbyists
I love that morph as well… beautiful snakes
A quick little reminder regarding the topic at hand which is “Market Saturation”
Let focus on a healthy discussion regarding the market saturation rather than unrelated negative issues.
Therefore in this effort I have split the conversation, you can now participate regarding how welcoming people are to new hobbyist here Ability of communities and individuals to welcome new hobbyists
Thanks
- Don’t post no-content replies.
- Don’t divert a topic by changing it midstream.
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On an added note: While I realize a lot of people are in it for the passion, and not the money. Or so they say. Its pretty much impossible to say you’re not in it for any kind of money. Ok, so most breeders raise their own feeders. So that’s less money itself. But the ones that don’t… The snakes can’t feed themselves. Those that are using substrates, they’re not free. Buying more racks isn’t free. What I’m getting at is, unless you have a money tree in your backyard, you’re in it for some kind of money. Even if you’re putting every penny back into your snakes. Some sell at inflated prices. But I’m not saying nothing about that. People that want to be proud of what they produced, have every right to be. Point is, saying your in it for 100% passion, and 0% money is a lie. Its more like 99%-1%, at best.
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That’s definitely true. There’s definitely a money aspect involved, as you gotta be able to purchase feeders, equipment, and sometimes even more snakes for breeding projects.
I think it’s more of the sense that people get into it just because they think they’ll get rich off of it quickly. Unfortunately I feel like those are also the people that would burn out quickly. Either it’s the waiting game that gets them, or sometimes they give up because something goes wrong (female slugs out, failed eggs in the incubator, etc.)
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As someone who has been keeping and breeding reptiles for over 17 years I have seen more come and go breeders than stick to it in the rough times breeders. Even bigger names have dropped the ball (pythons and the literal ball). I’ve had people tell me I’m lying about how long I’ve been in the hobby because they have never heard of me. I’m not about internet fame, not about big sales, I’m about quality pets and educating people about how great reptiles are as pets so we keep our right to have them. I’ve sold my share of normals knowing they’d feed cobras. Everything has an ebb and flow. You roll with it or move on.
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Most people don’t remember the days of hundreds of thousands of wild sourced Ball Pythons being imported regularly for the pet trade. This is back when Ball Pythons were less popular as pets than they are now. Now, thankfully, most are captive bred. And while it may seem like there’s a lot to choose from on morph market, the demand is still in excess of supply.
The breeder direct to customer market, however, will always have a large subset of breeders that have unrealistic expectations of the selling process. I’ve been breeding reptiles for 834 years and wether the markets good or bad, there are always people blaming the market for reality differing from their delusions.
On greed- the only people that I know that have had long term financial success in this industry are the ones that care the most about the animals that they work with. If you see someone doing better than you, they probably like snakes more than you 
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It’s all a cycle, just look at cornsnakes and kingsnakes. Market started higher, then averaged out, then tanked! Mexican black kingsnakes were $40 a baby I was buying one every time I saw one at a show or only. Now 15+ years later they are $200-$300…huh?
It’s a cycle, eventually more older breeders will retire. Young ones will rise up and in some cases it will be a fad and people will lose interest except for the serious keepers. Again look at the colubrid market, it was once saturated. Now breeders like SMR, Ultimate Cornsnakes, etc… have retired or sold off out of the market.
If your a long term keeper you’ll be here and if not than the best of luck!
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wow kyle i had no idea you were that old, looking good there methuselah. lmao sorry i couldn’t help it
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Well said!! I am pretty new to this as well. I am starting out to further my enjoyment of reptiles, I’m basically obsessed lol. I wish you well and good luck to you!!
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An endless cycle. Reminds me of the Netflix show “Dark”. 
What you think guys about the ball python market? Is in crash or not? Is in up or down in your opinion?
I think the market is steady not booming like 8 years or so ago when there was so much new stuff hitting the market in a short period but its flowing nicely. Sure if your producing the latest greatest hot stuff its probably flying out where if your trying to sell single gene animals it will take you a bit to move them to there new homes. So my take is its on a slow trend upward with more people at home and less places to travel and do things that cost cash more folks are buying in again just my opinion and i’m no where near an expert.
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I think it’s doing pretty steady, even for a new breeder like myself. I’ve never had any issue selling my ball pythons, at least. It’ll sometimes take a bit of time before I get any buyers, but they’ve always sold eventually.
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The idea of an impending market crash has been prevalent for 20 years but the hobby continues to grow and thrive regardless. People love to keep animals and ball pythons have numerous unique advantages over other pets. The market has changed but it is still quite strong, in fact it has thrived during these unusual covid times. Many breeders are selling out and prices are actually rising with some mutations. With a perpetually increasing number of mutations and potential combinations it becomes more complex to predict what will or wont be valuable and for how long. Understanding the function of each mutation and how they interact or may potentially interact is essential as is business professionalism. Social media is also a powerful tool. Some successful YouTube breeders sell out of their animals before they can even post them to morph market. The market has certainly changed but it is far from “crashing”. I dont see that happening. These animals are simply too awesome .
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Well, I guess we were due for this question - which has become an annual discussion point in the industry.
Some of the top tier breeders are reporting crazy sales. Tune into some of the more popular podcasts and these guys will talk about how busy they have been the past 6 months.
I don’t know have a good handle on what the ball python “supply” is compared to previous years, but some of the basic mutations such as albino have been selling for $50-100 higher than they have in the past. This suggests that the supply is much lower.
Let’s not forget that there were several months this year when many people in this country were getting an extra $600 a week on top of unemployment benefits. In my opinion, this probably contributed somewhat to a surge in sales.
Prices are somewhere between “steady” and “going up.” Where we go from here is not clear, but are definitely not experiencing a crash.
Some folks have chimed in on this thread and reminded us that this market, like any other market, is cyclical. So if we do experience a crash in the near future, I can tell you that I will be scooping up recessive females like its going out of style.
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I’m new to the whole thing and the idea of the market is scary but that’s not why I’m here. I want to produce some cool snakes and have some cool snakes market or not. I’m a positive stat to the market this year. I’ve added to larger breeder sales and smaller hobbyist sales. I want to make a positive impact to help support the market forward by making smart decision in purchasing and what I put back into the market. It’ll crash if people keep making poor decisions in what they put back into the market. That’s basically where I’m comming from.
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