Reptile police came to my house :(

All Reptiles
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The story, as told, shows a F&W officer performing their assigned duty by following up on a legally acquired permit, as they are allowed to do per the statues. The official did not do anything wrong. The OP is upset because they believed the only time an inspection could occur was with prior warning. The OP is, unfortunately, incorrect in that regard, again, per the statures. I understand that the OP was distressed/embarrased over the state of their home, but that is NOT a reason for all of the people here to be advocating violating the laws, advocating violence, or making comparisons to Nuremburg/Nazis!
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You openly admit to ignorance about these animals but then turn right around and advocate that the science of the environments tegus can survive in is “bunk”… I am sorry, but your credibility there is lacking.

Are politicians and AR groups playing to hysterical tactics? Certainly, they always do. All of them. But that does not change the fact that given their natural range and behaviours as observed and studied by actual legitimate field biologist shows that tegus can most certainly exist across a much greater portion of the US south than just southern Florida.
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As I plainly noted above:

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Nothing the official did was rude or an assumption of guilt. He:

And asked about another lizard but…

Everything there is 100% above board. Inspect caging on the animals they were there to inspect for to make sure it is secure. Only inspect for the species they were sent to inspect for.

There is a huge difference between “being official” and “being rude”. When a police officer pulls you over do you expect them to be cracking jokes with you and making small talk? Of course not. They should be courteous and to a degree stoic, perhaps even stern, depending on the situation. A F&W officer holds a position not that different so their demeanor will (and in this case absolutely was) very similar. The official, performed their duty, and left.
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I strongly advise anyone in Alabama to search for and talk with Florida keepers that have been on the permit system for years… Anyone from Florida will tell you that everything that happened in this inspection was just par for the course. The fact that Alabama is totally unfamiliar with how these systems operate does not change the fact that it was all legitimate

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44

I hope you haven’t confused me with any of those folks. You and I have a slightly different interpretation of the events, not a radically different one. You seem upset at me for stuff others have said. I’m sure that’s not the case, but it sort of reads that way.

I agree with most, but not all, of the rest of the statements you made.

You’re probably right this is par for the course, and I would suggest we improve society somewhat, but that’s out of scope for this thread. (That’s a joke, everyone chuckle and relax a bit)

I’m so very glad I don’t live in any of those states, and I never will. Best of luck to everyone, I feel it’s time to let this thread pass silently into a long dark slumber, at least for me.

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No, I am not lumping you in with the others that were advocating improper behaviours and making egregious comparisons. I apologize for making it seem as if I had lumped you in there.

I captured your quote because you specifically mentioned “the story as told”, and everyone speaking out hard against what happened, yourself included (though to a much lesser degree) were actually ignoring the story as it was actually told.

The actual story was that the OP was distressed and embarrassed with how the whole thing went down. I can understand that and fully sympathize, especially in light of what is going on in their personal life.

That said, the officer was not there to purposefully cause distress and embarrassment. Those were unfortunate side-effects of the officer performing his legitimate and legal duties. I would even be willing to concede that the officer was perhaps brusque or terse or non-communicative. Frankly, I would imagine that, if that were the case, it might be because he himself was distress and embarrassment at having to execute a completely new duty that he was not fully familiar or comfortable with. Remember, it is not just the reptile keepers down there that are having to adapt to a new and different set of laws but also the F&W officials that have suddenly found themselves in the position of enforcing those new laws.

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46

I feel I need to clarify in case I’m being misunderstood… I did not and am not advocating for breaking the law here, or for being violent for that matter. If the state has the ability and authority to take away your animals, then you’ve got to do what is in the best interest of them first and foremost. Sorry if it sounded like I was saying something otherwise. I’m rather bad at finding the right words to communicate sometimes, and it doesn’t help that this is an issue that gets me rather bothered for a number of reasons.

With that out of the way

I never said that. I specifically mentioned the fearmongering rubbish they tried to pull off years ago that Burmese pythons were going to spread outside of Florida. THAT was bunk science, and is what I was referring to. I’m more than willing to hear evidence of tegu eggs on the ground.

You just quoted yourself as evidence. I mean I’m willing to believe you but…
What I could find from a quick search was news articles that state they have found less than a dozen after a campaign for the public to be on the lookout for them. USARK doesn’t believe there has been sufficient evidence to say they are thriving and breeding in the wild, granted they are a bias source but I don’t think that is something they would outright lie about. Most of what I’ve heard about the SC ban’s intent is that it was preemptive to prevent a breeding population from forming. I’m not asking for a paper on this or anything, it’s kind of a side issue to this topic so it doesn’t really matter anyway. ¯_(ツ)_/¯

The main issue is whether the officer acted appropriately, and it is my belief that he did not. It might be in his legal right to do so, but that doesn’t mean it’s okay. From my interpretation of OP’s posts

  • The Warden went on her property without notice
  • Called her cell, accused her of lying about where the animals were located, demanded to see them without notice (in an aggressive tone)
  • Lied to OP about not being able to contact her as an excuse for his lack of notice
  • Couldn’t identify a Carpet python, again acted accusatory.

Yeah he’s within the limits of the system the state has set up, but are we really kidding ourselves that this is acceptable? Perhaps OP doesn’t feel too bad about it other than the embarrassment of a messy house, but what I and others were attempting to put say is that this is really infringing on both property and privacy rights, and it’s okay, it’s reasonable, to be upset about that. It doesn’t matter if the Warden is just doing his job. Nobody is saying he has to be friendly and buddy-buddy, picking up the snakes and giving them kisses. The very least you could do is give 24 hours notice. There is literally no reason, other than assuming some kind of crime, not to call beforehand. To reiterate: just because something is legal, and someone is just doing their job, doesn’t make this kind of intrusion warranted in my very humble opinion. I’ll treat them with the same dignity they give me.

I’m sorry to toadhall if this thread is making you more upset about the whole debacle. It’s not really my or anyone else’s intent. I’m sorry for your loss and the situation you find yourself in, and I hope your animals provide you with many more years of happiness, I’m sure they will.

Rant over I think? I don’t believe there’s much left to discuss. It’s totally fine if you disagree, I’m not sure what to say if you’d be fine with this happening to you, however. It might be good if someone could find the statutes that specify what exactly the troopers/Warden’s limitations are for inspections in the relevant states so someone might get some use from this thread.

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Disclaimer to everyone & anyone…if an authority figure…endorsements of whatever law… has entrance into your house…you have the right to record the entire interaction. & I would recommend doing so just for legally purposes.

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Side note…if these “officers” cant officially identify an animal…how well…are they actually doing their jobs…they need to have job training to independently identify animals on their own…or…what…really. Anyone could tell them anything. Uninformed people policing informed people…just doesn’t work…* government * that listening!

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A freaking “officer” that is required entrance into my house via any permit…better be able to give me latin names…or me…I would personally have a problem. Just saying…& I sympathize with your situation (the original post)

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I think I’m pretty outspoken about not wanting government in my life lol. But a couple observations one

Let’s just remember this “freaking officer” is a game warden I can almost guarantee this isn’t what he/she had in mind when they went to schooling for the job.

This is a bit much to expect most keepers don’t know the Latin names of all the snakes they keep.

If you truly want to change laws do so with your vote and by supporting groups that fight these laws. We are focusing to much on the warden they are not the problem they are just doing there job. Focus on the oppressive laws and fighting those.

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Peace, I was rattled probably or mostly because of personal issues and hyper awareness of body language.
I really appreciate the understanding and support. The game warden was doing his job and I have to admit that Thunder Lizard does have a black and white tai like a tegu.

I did feel he was hyperaware of the Tegus ,Salvator merianae, and showed remarkedly little interest in my retic ,Malayopython reticulatus, who is also listed on my permit. The way he asked about my other enclosures did seem like he was suspicious of what else I might have. He had no reason, I voluntarily chipped my animals and applied for a permit.

Honestly, I didn’t like being inspected (legal or not) It felt really intrusive. I don’t like having to get permits to keep some of my animals and I don’t like never being able to breed dwarf retics.

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I guess you didn’t know that these guys “just doing what their told” are actually heavily involved in writing and bringing forth these laws to politicians (absolutely already confirmed cases in FL) they push for this as they themselves get more funding for more assigned tasks. How much these guys “just doing their jobs” make directly correlate to how many bogus laws they can help get on the books……I’m shocked you thought otherwise

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That may be the case for some officers. However I don’t think that specific officer wanted to be there, paid or not. Just because 5% of the officers are focused on money doesn’t mean that the other 95% don’t care about justice or doing their job properly. Anyways, it’s not the individual officers that are doing this, it’s likely from management who manages the funds.

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The point is the politicians are not the problem as you mistakenly placed blame on. News flash 99.999999% of these politicians that somehow you convinced yourself are responsible for taking away our rights to own animals wouldn’t even know what a tegu was if they’d seen a picture of one. FWC is behind EVERY reptile law and regulation that’s ever Been pushed and ever been passed. And every one employed by FWC profits from it.

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I’m with @toadhall : peace everyone. Debate is cool, but everyone, please try not to make your comments pointed or personal, that turns a debate into an argument, which isn’t constructive, right?

@toadhall I absolutely understand how having your personal refuge invaded on short notice by someone with hostile body language, during a time when you are grieving, must have been horrible.

Conversely, it’s also a valid point that the officer was performing his assigned duties, most likely in the fashion he was trained to do so.

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This is completely and totally FALSE!

I know a significant number of Florida keepers and they communicate very well with their assigned F&W officials. F&W are not involved in the drafting of these pieces of legislation. It is animal rights special interest groups like PETA and H$U$ that push these things by greasing the palms of ignorant politicians.

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but someone posted on here that there was a news story and it showed a map of all of the addresses that had a venomous reptile permit. So everyone that had a venomous reptile permit had their house shown on the news telling people to avoid them.

That’s honestly just horrible. What the hell were these people thinking? What was going through their heads that made them think that THIS level of demonization was remotely acceptable??

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I agree that it is outrageous. Here’s the original post. For people that don’t understand snakes they probably think they are doing people a favor by telling them to be safe around “dangerous and deadly” snakes.

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Maybe it’s time for a reptile keeper special interest group to start doing a little palm greasing of its own. :woman_shrugging:t3:

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With donation money. They don’t need it for “rescue” animals since they euthanize ~90% within the first 24 hours (if I recall correctly). It seems that their main goal is to end pets, nothing to do with animal rights. :man_shrugging:

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Nominally, this is sort of what USARK does. Unfortunately, the war against us is so pervasive that most of the time USARK finds itself on the back foot on these things and they are spending money fighting the legal battles. The budget for H$U$ is easily an order of magnitude larger than USARK’s.

That is why it is important that ALL keepers (even if you only have one tiny leopard gecko) donate to USARK. It is only $40/year at the bottom tier, go one day a week without you morning Starbucks and you can afford that. I donate at least $20 from every sale I make because SYR makes that option available whenever I am booking the shipment. This year alone I have already donated $200.

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Speaking of mis-information- Tegu Breeding was literally worked out in captivity by Bert Langerwerf who kept and bred them outdoors in central Alabama near montevallo. He used carefully designed enclosures to ensure suitable microclimates (and all of his enclosures did not- he had hundreds of breeders at the time of his death, and many tegus were brought into a cold basement for the winter). However, the microclimates in such terraria aren’t too much of a stretch- it is very conceivable that tegus could find suitable microclimates on their own if they had a wide range to select from - say south facing slopes, thick brushpiles they could dig under, etc… Tegus are pretty durable. FWIW he kept a solid barrier- a fence dug a couple feet into the ground made of galvanized roofing metal surrounding much of his operation so that the tegus could never escape. If importers in FL had done similar precautions the hobby in FL would not have so much restrictions today.

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