Given the name being the same but proven different genes I just want to make sure im understanding something. If genetically shed tested a black pastel tested for only barnhart would test negative and likewise a barnhart tested only for black pastel would also test negative correct??
5 Likes
I believe that is correct. I see them listed as two different tests at two different prices on MM so thinking it’s not like ultramel or albino where they run both albino allele tests or both ultramel allele tests with just one test ordered. So as long as you were sure it was some kind of black pastel you could just order the not Barnhart test and use the results to deduce the Barnhart status.
Like if it was clearly a super black pastel and it came back only het for regular black pastel you could assume also het Barnhart. Not sure how you cold eliminate cinnamon in that scenario. I’m hoping someone eventually develops a cinnamon test too.
6 Likes
They’re most likely working towards a cinnamon test but sometimes the line between cinny and black pastel can be pretty clear. The father for these two is a carrying cinny, one mother was black pastel. The other was not carrying an 8ball complex gene.
In a combo it gets a lot tougher. @_@;
Blk pastel on left, cinny on right
But yes,
rlremington is right.
Barnhart = negative on Blk pastel test
Blk pastel = negative on Barnhart
If you have a super test het on either, it is carrying an additional 8ball gene of some type
5 Likes
Is it just that cinnamon is out of favor? Some labs seem better at finding whole complexes (different equipment or methodology?). I had hoped that cinnamon would be low hanging fruit with Barnhart black pastel, regular black pastel, and enchi all known now. Maybe Dr Seidel will eventually publish a paper on the complex.
3 Likes
I don’t think so? There are still a number of cinnys on the market. Iirc they were still looking for some good super cinny sheds for testing. Maybe they just haven’t had a big enough pool of them.
They are supposed to release a few new tests in the next few days too.
I want to actually have my baby or her mom tested for Barnhart just in case because she is really dark. But sometimes polygenic traits just line up in a good way to make them look better.
3 Likes
Someone explain polygenic for me please
1 Like
polygenic in reptile breeding is something that is line bred. Usually color or pattern in reptiles. There’s not a specific gene at work. There’s multiple genes and factors. Height in people is another example.
The best example off the top of my head is tangerine in leopard geckos. There’s no such thing as a het tangerine. You breed a bright and more orange gecko to another with similar traits. The offspring will be a mixed bag, but you take the best and brightest and breed them to the best and brightest. Eventually you’ll start producing enough that look similar or better to call it an established line…but it’s not something you can breed into easily like other genes (recessive, co-dom and such). You would have to continue selectively breeding them to continue that ‘look’
Polygenic traits are why sometimes a single gene mojave can be very dark looking compared to another. Here’s mojaves all from the same breeder, but each one has different polymorphic attributes that make the blushing, pattern shape or color different from one another
3 Likes
Ok so its kind of like ozzy and his HI-OD stuff? its still just orange dream but a brighter and cleaner version. Is that correct? Or like for instance I love full dorsals, So i would be better served in keeping hold backs of say red stripe or arroyo that have more full and complete dorsals rather than just any random red stripe or arroyo??
No
BlackPastel and Barnhart are two completely different alleles of the same gene, the same way BlackPastel and Cinny are two completely different alleles of the same gene
With the OD/HIOD, all of those animals are OD but in the HIOD there is likely a second mutation (or possibly more), isolated by selective breeding, that contribute to their higher intensity. Kind of like Albinos and high-contrast Albinos
2 Likes
Yep wasnt comparing the hi-od/od to the two black pastels. Was asking if thats a good example of polygenic based on armiyanas explanation. I get barnhart and BP are two completely different genes. How do you direct a reply to a specific previous reply here lol
1 Like
At the bottom of every individual post next to the flag and like and link buttons there is a little ‘Reply’ option. Click that and it auto-tags the person you are replying to 
1 Like
yea been hitting that. But im looking at my reply to arm, and it looks like its just a reply on the feed not directly to their post. Are you copying and pasting to have my specific lines in your reply? I may need to do that. Beyond that am I getting the polygenic right? with my examples of the OD/HI-OD? I know youre pretty versed on the genetics aspects.
Are you asking how to capture a quote, like I did here?
If so, the easiest way is to highlight the section you want and then a little option window pops up. Just click ‘Quote’ there and it preloads the quote in your reply
.
.
.
Yep, OD and HIOD is a valid example of polygenic
.
.
.
I have picked up a few things here and there 
4 Likes
well being in that corner of the country I’m sure you picked up a lot from that one guy
1 Like
Ok everyone lets see if my logic is sound. The pictured animal is very clearly at minimum Black Pastel, Clown. But with knowing the two different genes i wanted to test because wasnt sure which i had. The original animal of mine responsible for this lineage was a Black Pastel, Chocolate purchased from freedom breeder years ago. I had suspicion this animal was also OD so i sent in a shed and tested for Black Pastel and OD. I didnt test for Barnhart as it was more expensive than the BP test. The results came back and this animal tested NEGATIVE for Black Pastel and POSITIVE for OD. So given the look of this animal and the negative black pastel test i feel like i can ethically and correctly say it must be Barnhart. Would everyone agree??
Of course now im starting to imagine worst case scenario where FB incorrectly identified the original animal and she was cinnamon not Black Pastel 
And this would be my concern as well. Unless you definitely know the gene/allele that is present then it can be dangerous to speculate
4 Likes
Well what do you see when you look at the animal out of curiosity lol. The more i look at BP and Cinn with the other genes in play i get more unsure and of course theres no test for cinnamon yet. My two holdback females that came from the Freedom Breeder female i bought, are both in shed right now. So my plan is to have both of them tested for BP and Barnhart. I would assume if all those come back negative i can be sure at least that its then Cinnamon.
2 Likes
Did I understand right that both would have gotten whichever cinnamon/black pastel/barnhart gene from the same patent that had only one? If so, I’d be tempted to be cheap and test one for regular black pastel and other for Barnhart. If one hits sounds like you could assume the other the same. Of course if both miss I guess in addition to being cinnamon there is an outside chance some new allele.
1 Like
Yea i could totally BP one and Barnhart the other but im going a bit overkill just because 1. Im that kind of person lol and 2. This way its just more certainty against things like a bad sample, or a false neg/pos etc. If both these girls, whom im quite certain have whatever it turns out to be, test negative all around i know i have cinnamon. At which point i wonder if its worth having a discussion with FB if that ends up being the case. Because i got that original animal specifically for the genes listed, with specific breeding plans in mind and paid the market value price for it. Gonna be quite disappointed if i didnt get what i paid for. Conversely if by some miracle they turn out barnhart that would be great for me.
1 Like