What is the difference between these two BEL's?

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Blue Eyed Leucistic (Butter Mojave)
and a Blue Eyed Leucistic (Super Mojave) in terms of phenotype. Will they look the same as adults? Or will each one look different, with different variations? What kind of BLE is the most purest white snake as an adult with no bloches or other colors or redness showing through, ect ?

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No.

Yes, Lesser mojaves have the potential to be mostly white, they typically still retain the stipes across the eyes, some cases they’re barely visible, other cases they’re clearly visible, they sport a clearly defined Ivory stripe down the back.

Super mojaves typically have a grey head, and more of a white/grey coloration. not stark white.

Super Lessers, Super Butters, and Lesser Butters (all the same thing). This snake is typically stark white, this mutation removes the head stamp, no lines across the eyes, they remain white throughout adulthood. Nothing can be seen when a blacklight is applied to them. They do not develop an Ivory stripe. Eye defects are common, they can have bug eyes, small eyes, uneven eyes, ect.

And the redness is normal, you snake can turn slightly pink at times when the blood shows though. It’s not permanent or indicative of the quality of the animal.

Super Lesser is the whitest of the white hands down, don’t let anyone tell you otherwise.

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Personally I think White Diamond (Super Russo) is the whitest.

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While Super Lessers, Super Butters or Lesser Butters may be very white or even the whitest, (I won’t argue the point) anyone intending to breed for BELs should know that the combinations are susceptible to eye deformations (i.e. bug eyes or bulging eyes). I am not sure if the same is true for a Super Russo or not. Lesser Mojave is a combination that makes a nice white snake that will stay white throughout it’s life without the possibility of creating eye defects. Just my $0.02.

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Great this is exactly what I’m interested in. I want a snake that is pure white as can be with blue eyes but healthy and genetically sound as possible.

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Then you’ll be disappointed with the Lesser Mojave.

Check out the Russo’s.[quote=“mdkhalil, post:5, topic:13436, full:true”]

Great this is exactly what I’m interested in. I want a snake that is pure white as can be with blue eyes but healthy and genetically sound as possible.
[/quote]

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If you really want a stark white snake then skip the BluEL group and got for the BlkEL group instead.

While the BluELs will hatch out pretty white, ALL BluELs, regardless of combination, yellow out as they age and end up looking more cream-coloured. Whereas the all-white BlkELs stay stark white as they age. I say this from personal experience having worked with three of the four “white” snake groups (I have not had an all-white Pied in my collection but from my communications with other breeders I suspect they would compare to the all-white BlkELs in staying power)

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I won’t profess to have worked with all combinations, and I guess it depends on what the OP’s idea of what “white enough” is. But just a quick glance, using the filters for this site, at the adult BELS (Mojave Lesser combos only) the vast majority look pretty white still including one that was a 2011 which Sold in 2017 and was 2500 grams. That is still a 6 year old snake which is mature and 2500 grams is pretty large size.

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White like milk without other colors coming through, nice ‘thick’ white, not ivory or greyish. What is a BlkEL? What do I type in when I search for one? Yes, pure white into adulthood is what I’m looking for, as long as she is healthy.

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BlkEL is shorthand for Black Eyed Leucistic as opposed to BluEL which is a Blue Eyed Leucistic. Different combinations produce each.

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Black Eyed Leucistic Complex

Brite
Fire
Flame
Lemonback
Sauce
Sulfur

Pairing any two of the above genes will give you Black Eyed Leucistics

Blue Eyed Leucistic Complex

Bamboo
Lesser/Butter
Mocha
Mojave
Phantom/Mystic
Russo
Special

Pairing most of the above genes will give you Blue Eyed Leucistics

Edited to show @westridge correction below.

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Thanks for that, now it is bookmarked, such a great piece of information have

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It is not true that pairing any two of the above genes will give you a leucistic. Disco or Vanilla will not give you a white snake no matter what you breed it to. Nor will the Daddy gene. Mojave x Mystic/Phantom = not white, as well as Mojave x Special, Mystic/Phantom x Special and Mystic/Phantom x Mystic/Phantom.

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There is a difference between what you see in pictures and what you see when they are in your actual hands. I had a 2100g Hypo Lesser/Mojave (which is a double dose of de-pigmentation) and she had a distinctly visible stripe on her dorsal and when I put her side-by-side with my all-white 1800g SuperFire (probably Pastel, possible SuperPastel, possible YB) she looked dingy by comparison. I also had a three year proven Ivory Butter OD Pastel and he was white as well, but he was not WHITE. The SuperFire was stark, shock WHITE to the point of almost being translucent.

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So it sounds like I want the improbable, not impossible, but not so common. And babies change so I’d have to get an adult it sounds like if I want to know that i’ll be getting a truely ‘white’ snake.

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You want a truly white snake go with a high white Pied, or Super Fire.
They are white as snow as adults.

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I do not know that it is improbable, you just may have t ask around a bit rather than waiting for one to fall in your lap :+1:t4:

And there is nothing stopping you from buying a hatchling and growing it up. I just believe it is best to go in with your eyes open on potential outcomes. I have seen/heard too many stories of people feeling disillusioned that the baby they purchased from a breeder that swore the animal would turn out one way only come to find out that the animal turned out differently. If you know that it is possible for any BluEL, regardless of the morphs that were used to make it, to develop a stripe and a yellowish tinge, then it does not surprise you when/if it happens

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Well I wouldn’t get rid of it just because it had a yellowish stripe as an adult for sure! I can ask the breeders too since they know their own snakes and any experienced one can tell me what to expect from what they produce as well. I don’t NEED a white snake, there are tons of other great morphs too.

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You might think that, but I know of one breeder that sells his line of BluELs telling people that they stay pristine white and never develop a dorsal stripe when it is well known that the supers from his line almost always develop a stripe

Get all four types of white snake… Then you can figure out which one you really like the best :upside_down_face: :upside_down_face: :upside_down_face:

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Super mocha…nuff said

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