What Morphs/traits should be bred to Super Black Pastel Panda Pied?

I agree with others that they should be pets and not breed, do to all the potential issues.
As @scissortailscales stated, I also see issues mostly with the black head one, duck bill, bug eyes and small head. The other also looks like bug eyes and duck bill, can not tell about the head, but it does look a little smaller, but not as bad as the other. And this is just my thoughts from what I can see in the current pictures.


Ah, but there in lays the catch22 - I do not like Pied so I do not work with it and never would. Just not my cuppa…

As babies, sure. But as they undergo their ontogenetic change, the tone of a Banana becomes more grey whereas the Candy/Candino stays purplish

Adding Champ will definitely make them all-white


Not to be overly contentious here, but as others have noted, at least one of the two picture above have bug eyes, and the one with the all black head has a super weird narrow head shape.

Also not sure what’s going on here, it could just be a normal bend in the tail from the way it’s sitting, but looks almost like a small kink….

If these two are an example of “the most healthy panda pieds in the world”, I’m not sure that’s a claim I’d be making given that multiple of us here have noticed defects in these animals


I thought Sumas can have issues too? I thought I remembered Justin from Kinova mentioning it. I’m no expert, just curious.

I appreciate all the thought that went into your response! Thank you!

I actually love your last suggestion and I would love to create the first Red Panda!

Any suggestions from you or the community on how to create or partner to help make the Red Panda? I open to all suggestions or offers to partner :+1:t2::smile:


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Chester… That poop shute you circled is perfect :rofl: and ready to fire! :smile:
If you are inferring an issue like a kink… it is not.

You can’t make a red ball python. They simply don’t have the genetic makeup to do that. Yes, they have orange tones but that is brown. The video of the red ball that most people claim to is not a real video. There has been many discussions on that python and it is not real. @t_h_wyman has talked about it before on here in depth.

Also another link to something on here Red in balls - #3 by t_h_wyman


I don’t blame the suspicion.
I had to discuss returning a super cinny because of a kink at that exact location and there have been other blk pastel or cinny supers with a kink at that exact sport that look very similar to that particular bend.

If you say it’s not, then awesome. But that still doesn’t disprove the bug eye look that animal has.


Hey, don’t go stealing my idea! lol

Though, what @lumpy says is true. It’s going to be more of a rusty blackish-brown than red. I fully expect the Blanchi Sunset Pied to be more visually stunning. Still, I wouldn’t mind hitting an 8 Ball version just to see what it looks like. I love Sunset regardless and think it works great with Pied.

@panda-breeder If you want to take your own stab at it, then you’ll need a Sunset or two! They can be pretty pricey, especially if you want a Sunset that already has some of the other genes you’d need to make the combo. I don’t know if any Black Pastel Sunsets exist at the moment, but there are Cinnamon Sunsets and Sunset/Pied double hets available from time to time.

Not sure what you mean by partnering with anyone, but I don’t do breeding loans or anything. I’ll produce more double hets than I need at some point though. The only way I’ve “partnered” with anyone so far is by selling my babies to other people who are into the same projects. I love meeting people who are as excited about them as I am. :heart:

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I think the idea is the Sunset is one of the closest to having erythrism or any true Red pigment, like our beloved boas (Blood Boas especially, or the deep reds of the BCCs etc)

Who knows, it takes genetics to make red pigment at all. Maybe one day a true Red BP will be found. Other pythons, even African pythons seem to have it. But yes, that one red red BP was totally fake. Poor little dude…


These 4 pics were taken of this beautiful kink “free” panda, this AM… highlighted the tail for the doubters, who I normally would ignore. Compare this tail to your best snake, to help you understand what a kink is Vs a snake ready to poop :face_with_hand_over_mouth:
If there is a kink anywhere on this snake including the tail, then it’s in a jealous eye only :rofl:🫣


Not to sound rude, but you seem to come off as very combative when others are just suggesting you don’t breed animals that are predisposed to have genetic issues. You can’t get away from the issues with “high quality blood” or anything else. It’s the genetics of these morphs that people are talking about.
I understand wanting to get input, but when people give input and you instantly try to discredit what they’re saying, it’s not a great look. Despite what looked like a kink, there is still the question of odd head shape/bulging eyes as well.

I understand you asked for opinions on what to breed, but that is also going to come with comments on what others may suggest not to do.


Definitely some sausage butt going on! I like the nice sized dark patches, but my favorite part of that snake is the white nose with the dark head all around it! Whatever different genetics people can use to produce pieds that look like this, the contrast between the dark and pure white is striking! Always a head turner type of look!

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Appreciate the positive comments!

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I actual agree with your observation. I’ve learned a lot from negative comments over the years but expected to get fun ideas from my post here, which was to help the community if I decided to do something most in the business cant do, based on my inventory.

My frustration shows in my response because instead of asking if there was a defect… the post made inaccurate accusations that there were defects. I feel taking time to engage these types of posts can be important, so I took pics showing they were wrong.

Just look at our news today. [Politics Redacted] We all need to do better!

I will try to do better and do appreciate you for taking time to constructively comment!


Please keep this place politics free.

This is a place to avoid the crazy world outside of these doors :wink:


It seems to me that you’re only concerned with one of the common defects in panda pieds and that’s kinks. As others have pointed out, the head and bill shape of your animals is well outside of normal parameters, and at least one of them has macrophthalmia. Duck bills and large eyes are defects that are endemic to homozygous Black Pastel for the same reason that kinks are. It’s directly tied to the gene complex.

My question regarding the kinking is how many of these animals have you produced?


Flawed logic there:

Who knows, it takes genetics to make feathers at all. Maybe one day a true feathered BP will be found

It takes a lot more than just the single ‘blip’ mutation we are used to for morphs to switch the entire pigmentation processing system from yellow over to red. So, short of a huge selective pressure and more than a few generations, we will not be seeing a “true red” BP


I have a hard time making my point at times without real life examples!
Some people prefer to attack and cancel and accuse without any real facts or proof… I was just frustrated… but decided not to respond to the ignorant in the future
Sorry you had to edit me :v:t2: