I’m thinking about establish new morphs using my successful healthy Panda Pied line of snakes.
I am looking to the community to suggest unique combinations that you people believe would make an awesome pet with spectacular colors… using the purest jet black and white Pandas hatched to date as a baseline.
PLEASE RESPOND WITH YOUR SUGGESTIONS IF YOU HAVE ANY GOOD ONES
If you like the Super Black Pastel Pieds (True Panda Pieds) & believe they are the ultimate desired snake, then please let me know that as well.
I just would like to try and produce a clutch of dream snakes never seen before!!! I have bred the most healthy Panda’s in the world from what I have been told but facing the age old question in retirement… go softly into the night or leave kicking and screaming trying to complete one More impossible project with the perfect Pandas I’ve already created???
NEED YOUR HELP… Either Way
SO BALL LOVERS… WHAT WOULD YOU DO NEXT WITH YOUR MALE AND FEMALE PERFECT PANDAS IF THEY WERE ALL YOURS?
THE PERSON THAT CREATES THE IDEA THAT I CREATE WILL RECEIVE THE FIRST CHANCE TO PURCHASE THE NEW CREATION AT A HUGE DISCOUNT OR FREE (If it’s spectacular) AT MY DISCRETION!!!
See pics of 2 of my pets attached
I think it depends on what kind of end goal you are seeking… “AWESOME” is a little vague and also subject to personal tastes LOL
Do you want a purple and white snake? Add Candy in
Larger/more splotching? Enchi and/or Pin would help there
Double/Triple/Quadruple down on the darkness? Acid and/or Cypress and/or GHI and/or Mahogany
Tweak the compound heterozygous option? Huffman and/or Jolt and/or Razor
Some combination of the above with a twist? Acid Candy Cypress Jolt OD…
Honestly I would just retire them and keep them back as nice pets. Super black pastel/cinnamon combos are much like classic cars - beautiful and retro, but as as we learn more we can do better/safer. With the discovery that Suma pied combos make beautiful black and white snakes without the defects, it seems like a lot of people are going that way (for good reason). In the same way it’s going to be safer to drive a C8 corvette on a busy highway instead of a '65 stingray, it seems better to go with crosses that are healthier and less prone to issues. Keep them back for show and as a fun reminder of where we’ve come from!
Idk man, their head shape always throws me off
I like where @t_h_wyman is going with the ghi, acid stuff. If I had a choice it would be black pastel, acid, pied/het pied or black pastel, ghi, Mojave pied/het pied for a mate. The ghi with Mojave may be better as I know it will stay dark but both might give you those real cool weird s shaped gold dorsal marks, which if a saddle had one or two would look awesome in a dark black pastel pied python, don’t know if it would show up in a super black pastel pied though, which would be a good reason to have ghi, Mojave to stay very dark even with just 1 black pastel gene showing. Nice dark pandas you got! Can’t wait to see how you enhance them even more!
I like all your great suggestions.
To answer your question about my goal for a new rare morph is to make the most widely desired color combo… something never made before.
So to my original post:
What one snake morph combo would “you” add to
a Panda Pied if you had my pure Panda collection??
Just one snake male or female…
Looking forward to hearing your answer! & thank you for a great first response!
Hi Chester, your opinion makes really good sense for the large breeders and new breeders who want simplicity and volume babies to sell.
However, my Panda gene line is virtually defect free. & there are lots of reasons a Classic 1955 gullwing Mercedes sold recently for more than $6.8 Million, when brand new ones sell for less than 200k. TRUE Classics in my personal opinion are now and will always be the BEST AND PRICE SAYS IT ALL.
Worth/Value in a free society is based solely on what a person is willing to pay for anything.
Still I love and respect your personal opinion, as much as I know you respect mine
You did great answering my question of what you would do… thank you for narrowing your choice for me… it helps a lot and matches up with one other suggestions I’ve had.
Great idea! I May go this direction. If I do… I will let you know!
Banana is also a good option if you want purple and white. As a inc dom gene, it’s somewhat easier to work with too, though it’s probably not going to be worth as much as a double recessive.
Because both pied and super black pastel wipes out pattern and ads contrast, color-changing morphs are gonna give you more bang for your buck. Albino variants like the Candy gene are good options, but I also think Lavendar albino and Ultramel would make interesting and unique combos if you wanted more orange and brown.
Hypo could be neat too, if you wanted to produce a darker gray and white animal. Champagne might produce some interesting results, though I’m a little worried it might make the snakes too high white.
Personally, I’m gonna go the Sunset route. A red panda would be nice. I’m not sure how well that’ll work, but we’ll see. I might end up going the Black Pastel Enchi Sunset Pied route if the Super Black Pastel Sunset Pied doesn’t have as much color as I’d like.
Are the photos posted a clear representation of the animals or is there any type of skewing/distortion in the photos of each? I only ask because the top-notch health and lack of defects has been noted by yourself here but the images provided appear to depict an abnormal head and “bill” structure for each animal shown. Thank you for your thought provoking post as well; thinking up new combos is something I also find enjoyable.
I agree with others that they should be pets and not breed, do to all the potential issues.
As @scissortailscales stated, I also see issues mostly with the black head one, duck bill, bug eyes and small head. The other also looks like bug eyes and duck bill, can not tell about the head, but it does look a little smaller, but not as bad as the other. And this is just my thoughts from what I can see in the current pictures.
Ah, but there in lays the catch22 - I do not like Pied so I do not work with it and never would. Just not my cuppa…
As babies, sure. But as they undergo their ontogenetic change, the tone of a Banana becomes more grey whereas the Candy/Candino stays purplish
Adding Champ will definitely make them all-white
Not to be overly contentious here, but as others have noted, at least one of the two picture above have bug eyes, and the one with the all black head has a super weird narrow head shape.
Also not sure what’s going on here, it could just be a normal bend in the tail from the way it’s sitting, but looks almost like a small kink….
If these two are an example of “the most healthy panda pieds in the world”, I’m not sure that’s a claim I’d be making given that multiple of us here have noticed defects in these animals
I thought Sumas can have issues too? I thought I remembered Justin from Kinova mentioning it. I’m no expert, just curious.
I appreciate all the thought that went into your response! Thank you!
I actually love your last suggestion and I would love to create the first Red Panda!
Any suggestions from you or the community on how to create or partner to help make the Red Panda? I open to all suggestions or offers to partner
Chester… That poop shute you circled is perfect and ready to fire!
If you are inferring an issue like a kink… it is not.
You can’t make a red ball python. They simply don’t have the genetic makeup to do that. Yes, they have orange tones but that is brown. The video of the red ball that most people claim to is not a real video. There has been many discussions on that python and it is not real. @t_h_wyman has talked about it before on here in depth.
Also another link to something on here Red in balls - #3 by t_h_wyman
I don’t blame the suspicion.
I had to discuss returning a super cinny because of a kink at that exact location and there have been other blk pastel or cinny supers with a kink at that exact sport that look very similar to that particular bend.
If you say it’s not, then awesome. But that still doesn’t disprove the bug eye look that animal has.
Hey, don’t go stealing my idea! lol
Though, what @lumpy says is true. It’s going to be more of a rusty blackish-brown than red. I fully expect the Blanchi Sunset Pied to be more visually stunning. Still, I wouldn’t mind hitting an 8 Ball version just to see what it looks like. I love Sunset regardless and think it works great with Pied.
@panda-breeder If you want to take your own stab at it, then you’ll need a Sunset or two! They can be pretty pricey, especially if you want a Sunset that already has some of the other genes you’d need to make the combo. I don’t know if any Black Pastel Sunsets exist at the moment, but there are Cinnamon Sunsets and Sunset/Pied double hets available from time to time.
Not sure what you mean by partnering with anyone, but I don’t do breeding loans or anything. I’ll produce more double hets than I need at some point though. The only way I’ve “partnered” with anyone so far is by selling my babies to other people who are into the same projects. I love meeting people who are as excited about them as I am.
I think the idea is the Sunset is one of the closest to having erythrism or any true Red pigment, like our beloved boas (Blood Boas especially, or the deep reds of the BCCs etc)
Who knows, it takes genetics to make red pigment at all. Maybe one day a true Red BP will be found. Other pythons, even African pythons seem to have it. But yes, that one red red BP was totally fake. Poor little dude…