Breeding them ends life quicker?
Just a debate going on, on a group and I’ve not heard of this myself at all.
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I’m not sure. No one has seen a female lay eggs yet. They have a lot of shedding issues, and they shed a couple times a month. I would imagine if that’s not managed well, they won’t live long.
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I’ve heard from several people now at expos (one of whom actually worked with scaleless) that they can’t/don’t lay eggs. The defect that causes scalessness (karetin mutation perhaps?) also makes them unable to form eggs. I have no data to back that up though
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I know I’m a bit late on some of these quotes, but since this topic got bumped, might as well.
You do realize guttatus and emoryi hybridize in the wild, right? Heck, for a long time Slowinski’s Rat Snakes were considered an intergrade between the two before they were upgraded to a full species. The chances of any corn snake, even wild caught, being “pure” corn with no rat at all is a toss up, so to be “pissed off” about hybrids is kind of ridiculous.
See above as to why even this is not a guarantee.
Scaleless corns are just as hardy as normal corns, aside the fact that you have to make sure there’s nothing too sharp in their enclosures. My boy has only ever injured himself once, and he healed with no assistance whatsoever.
Oh so very hardy.
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I didn’t like the idea of scales snakes until I got to see/hold a couple. The scaleless corn snakes are very pretty, they almost seem to have jewels (a few scales) on their skin. The scaleless ball pythons are very beautiful too. Interacting with them has made me reconsider my opinion.
If people choose to breed or purchase scaleless snakes, I feel the breeder should make sure the prospective buyer understands the extra care required to keep them healthy and comfortable. I have not decided if I will ever get a scaleless but I am considering the idea.
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What do you guys think about scaleless reptiles? My opinion on them depends on the snake. I think that corn and rat snakes are fine and i personally really like them a lot. I think how it changes the snake is really cool and unique. I also do not think it negativity affects the snake because it still has ventral scales. On the other hand I do not like scaleless ball pythons at all. It is a lot of different care requirements because of it, they can get hurt easier than other scaleless because they do not have ventral scales, almost always have shed issues and a lot more problems. I would like to hear other opinions on scaleless snakes and why your opinions are different or the same as mine.
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I feel like, as long as you know how to properly care for one you can keep them healthy, however, it’s kinda like an intentionally bred defect?
Defects are on purpose in many animals though, compact French bulldogs, bettas with fins longer than their bodies, giant budgies, dwarf this dwarf that, etc. etc.
I’m not bashing anyone who breeds scaleless snakes, I got into interact with a scaleless corn and it kind of feels like your not holding a snake at all LOL.
Breeding scaleless snakes seem innocent enough, the snakes act normal, maybe have shedding issues but if they’re otherwise healthy I guess it’s not hurting anything.
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I draw the line here. The reptile has scales for several reasons and not having them affects its quality of life. It affects the ability to shed, prevent injury and move. So no, this is something that needs to stop and stop asap. Its wrong.
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I don’t have any particular opinions on scaleless in pure species other than I have no interest in them, but scaleless “corn” snakes are cringe because they’re all hybrids
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I really just think they look weird, but as long as they can still live a normal, healthy, life, I don’t see too much of a problem.
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This topic has already been discussed previously, I think you’ll find a solid amount of opinions in this thread:
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I equate them to hairless cats. An abomination and crime against nature 
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Come on, not an abomination 
This discussion is converting my doubts a bit.
also look at the cleaness of this animal in the link below, and also not so problematic shedding apparently if your prepared to do the work.
Pluss they feel real soft and nice 
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By the same logic so is; the Black Pastel complex due to defective head shape, the parts of the BEL complex that have micro/macropthalmia in the homozygous form, all wobble morphs across all species, probably all Snow combos across all species due lacking both melanin and xanthin/erythrin for how that affects vision. At a certain point of breeding mutated animals it’s either all or none of it is, as long as the animal lives a normal lifespan without having a reduced quality of life.
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I actually really like scaleless, I dont have any so I cant speak to anything beyond the hairless cat comparison. I have a buddy that is majorly creeped out by them, he is the one that coined the abomination phrase so now whenever someone talks about scaleless I say that and chuckle.
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@themorphranch
Yea my emojis were supposed to emphasise our tongue in cheek humor and lack of seriousness on the topic.
I am old and maybe used the wrong ones
@ballornothing . I agree and would expand.
I love big blue eyes in some super lessers and it does not harm them and they thrive. Like I think you say. if healthy for any morph, whats the problem? correct me if I misunderstand your post.
As for regarding reduced melanin, yes I have one adult albino I bought with cataracts because their needs were not considers and kept under high UV light, but unlike a human albino that would protect their eyes with sunglasses, No UV for my albinos produced and they thrive and see OK.
Genetic diversity guarantees survival regardless of the changing environment.
Lets consider for one example, low light cave adapted snakes and animals where their genetic differences becomes the norm and facilitates survival, or any changes in the planets environment over time.
e.g this blind albino cave salamander-
Without genetic variation, life would not survive the changes the environment has or will have.
A mutation with whats seemed as problems to the norm, in the right environment can become dominate and the only survivor replacing the norm.
Life finds a way to continue.
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I feel like this might be partially based in misinformation/misunderstanding the mutation overall. The scaleless morph has naturally occurred in multiple species, with wild specimens found. In several snake species, for example, aside from obviously being more prone to certain types of skin injury, their quality of life is not impacted in any significant way. There are also different types of scaleless, as in BPs the belly scutes are missing, however this is not usually the case in rat or corn snakes. The latter also have no more issue shedding than a scaled specimen. In some reptile species, yes, scaleless specimens are problematic, however in others, they’re no different than any other morph.
Almost all corns in the hobby, not just scaleless, likely carry some hybrid blood. This is due to how taxonomy has changed over the years, unscrupulous breeding, as well as the fact that even in their natural habitat, rat and corn snake species overlap. Unless it’s locality with traceable lineage you have no idea, and even then that’s not a guarantee it’s pure. You’ll actually find many species aren’t “pure”, so it’s not a great attitude to have.
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I’m so captivated by how they look with all those wrinkles when they bend. I haven’t decided if I love it or hate it 
I probably would never get a scaleless because to me…scales are like the whole point. But in species that retain belly scutes and egg teeth, I don’t think their quality of life seems to decrease enough to be claimed as more of an issue than any other mild morph issues.
Now pythons and the naked bellies are a different story for me, and I’m more against those (with the morph example, I’d say its the difference between mild wobble morphs and severe wobble or duckbilling morphs in terms of breeding ethics), but if someone is willing to care for them properly, then I can’t really say much about it, right? I won’t buy because I’d be worried about meeting their needs and keeping them safe, but that might be something easy for someone else to do in their situation.
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I have made a very similar point in the Spider debate thread. If you are going to start the argument about “morphs with problems” you are stepping onto a slippery slope that plays right into the hands of animal-rights activists because pretty much every mutation can be deemed a problem given enough argument
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At the end of the day, all of us are just keeping animals in boxes. Period. End of discussion. These animals are never going to see the wild again so any arguments about “natural” or “proper” go out the window.
All that matters is:
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Do you enjoy what you are keeping?
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Are you properly caring for what you are keeping?
So long as you can answer “Yes” to your own personal animals, then that is where the discussion should end. Whether or not you like Scaleless makes no difference to whether or not I like them. You should not push your personal feelings onto anyone else. This is the same reason I would not slap a coffee out of your hands if you happen to like that disgusting vile concoction of Satan rather than drink the ambrosia that is chai tea
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Out of all the controversial opinions on this site, I find this one the most egregious
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