Agreed. Coffee is the nectar of the gods, and I have now lost all respect for @t_h_wyman. (Just to be clear, Iām joking, drink whatever makes you happyā¦even if itās an objectively inferior beverage.)
Regarding the original topicā¦I donāt really have strong feelings about scaleless reptiles one way or the other. I donāt usually care for the way they look, although they do feel super cool. So long as those keeping them are informed about their needs and can give them any special care they might require (and I realise not all scaleless reptiles even have special care needs), then keep/breed them if you like them. As others have pointed out, whether or not they could survive in the wild is a pretty moot point so long as they can have a high quality of life in captivity. And in some cases, scaleless animals have been seen in the wild. As adults. So the āitās unnaturalā argument doesnāt hold much water as far as Iām concerned.
I have found them to be more fragile than scaled snakes. Their skin is super super soft, lighter colored ones are almost see through. Yes, they are physically more fragile, because skin is more fragile than scales any day. But thatās not what really makes them fragile. Itās dehydration. They can get dehydrated so quickly, especially if you use a heat lamp. I would offer a sizable humidity hide and a sizable water bowl and keep the humidity a little bit higher than normal, but with good ventilation. And everything has to be clean. They absorb so much more crud through the exposed skin so you want it sterile.
I donāt think itās bad, scaleless snakes can live just as happy as any other snake, (except fully scaleless. Belly scutes are an important part of a snakeās natural locomotion so I donāt agree with breeding snakes without them.) But scaleless of any snake definitely raises the requirements of cleanliness and husbandry in regards to proper humidity and moisture control. So maybe donāt get a scaleless (letās say rat) snake thinking that you can care for it just like any other scaled rat snake in the same species. Trust me, I learned the hard way, so you donāt have to.
Also, i read someone saying that they only have ever seen young scaleless, and that they think they die at like 3-4, and Iām happy to report that (in my experience) thatās not necessarily the case. I have an aquantance who has a 7 year old reddish orange scaleless rat/corn named Bacon that is healthy and happy. I think the problem still is that the scaleless āmorphā adds a level of complexity to the care that most people buying one for the first time donāt really understand. You can have a great enclosure and solid parameters for normal scaled snakes of that species but still see them fail. There hasnāt been a lot of great material out there that Iāve found that really goes over the extra care requirements of scaleless snakes either. I would surmise that the high juvenile mortality rate has a lot to do with those factors.
This has been an interesting thread to read on which I cannot comment because I have no experience or knowledge of scaleless snakes but I do like coffee, the darker the better, with sugar, skim milk and Ovaltine, over iceā¦ā¦ā¦
That was an interesting read, thanks for sharing. Iād always heard/read that scaleless rat snakes didnāt really require any special care and could be kept just like their scaled brethren. But what you say about their skin being delicate and them being much more prone to dehydration does make sense.
I still donāt take issue with the existence and keeping/breeding of scaleless snakes, but just like with any animal, itās important to know and provide the proper care so they can have a happy and healthy life.
I wouldnāt present this as outright fact, because your experience is not everyoneās experience. My scaleless hasnāt ever had a problem with dehydration because heās got access to an appropriately sized bowl and is fed regularly. The issues you saw may be partially due to the area in which you live and that climate. As for the, āthey absorb so much more crud through their skinā I highly question that assumption. Even scaled snakes still have skin between those scales, which is exposed to the elements. Again, scaleless specimens have been found in the wild, nature is not clean. As long as you spot clean your enclosures daily & deep clean regularly, there shouldnāt be any issues.
I also think the not seeing a scaleless over 2-3 was about scaleless BPs, not rat snakes. There is, as far as Iām aware, no difference between the lifespan in scaled vs scaleless rat or corn snakes. Right now, for example, there is at least one ten year old scaleless corn for sale on MM.
Good info. This aligns more closely with what Iāve heard/read about scaleless rat snakes. But as you pointed out, someone living in a very dry climate is going to have to worry more about humidity and dehydration than someone who lives in a more humid climate.
I think itās all too common that local climate is overlooked when people seek help regarding issues with their animals, thatās one of the things this forum has really helped me learn. Where you live, how your house was built, whether or not you have central heat or air, so many things factor into what weād normally see as something pretty cut and dry like temperature or humidity related issues.
Definitely. I know I need to adjust my husbandry a bit with the seasons. I turn the thermostats up a couple degrees and mist a lot more in the winter, when itās colder and the air is much drier.
So yes Amen to that! I am right smack in the middle of IN, the humidity capital of the country! All of the factors you mentioned play a part in how an enclosure should be set up and the husbandry maintained. It would be so much easier if there was only one set of rules for all but thatās not the case.
Absolutely! Given the opportunity those groups can find an issue with just about anything, no need to give them more ammo.
Exactly. Iām trying to create the healthiest animal
I can produce, for a captive keeper. Iām not up against natural selection pressures lol.
This is definitely the beginning and end of the conversation. Scaleless shed poorly? Keep them hydrated/bag balmed etc. Albinos that are light sensitive? Give them hide options and avoid harsh direct lighting. Someone doesnāt like coffee? When they pass, donate their body to science to see exactly where the defect lies
(Just to be clear, Iām joking, drink whatever makes you happyā¦even if itās an objectively inferior beverage.)
